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The Pope…
Posted: 05 April 2012 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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inthegobi - 05 April 2012 12:20 PM

... only a rabid anti-theist (present company excepted), or an iconoclast in the technical sense, would desire them to be broken up or melted down. Or sold or just handed over to a secular museum ...

To be clear, of course I would not desire them to be broken up and melted down. (At least, not the ones I think are halfway attractive. And I have very small-‘c’-catholic taste in art.  smile ). To be sold or donated somewhere? That’d be up to the Church itself, clearly. Were they to sell these golden gewgaws and use the money for charity, and I mean real charity, not simply proselytization, they would be doing a very good thing.

Of course, it’s only human to like the flash of gold, and to enjoy having loot you can guard behind great wrought-iron doors in your own carved stone vault. Any billionaire would enjoy such a thing, I’m sure. But I think any fair person would have to admit such desires have nothing whatever to do with what Jesus taught about religion, insofar as we can interpret such things.

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Posted: 05 April 2012 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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I love the art. I’m sure there are plenty of billionaires willing to pay through the nose for a chance to own a vatican artifact. The money can then be put to good use helping their impoverished flock. Another church pet peave of mine, is that ‘mother Teresa’ collected billions upon billions of dollars for her charity, and not one cent went to help the impoverished they were providing so called ‘care’ for…and her hospital that could be a world class operation, with the best fully trained help there is, continues to use untrained ignorant nuns, whose primary consideration is getting to prayer on time,  as ‘nurses’, and sees pain as ‘a kiss from Jesus’.

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Posted: 07 April 2012 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Asanta:

On selling the art to ‘billionaires’ and then using the money:
Breaking up collections is not generally a good idea.
Billionaires tend to like to hang their loot, I mean art, in their private homes, to show everyone they can.
Come to think of it, instead of curling the lip at the church for not selling their art to billionaires, why not instead complain that billionaires don’t use their money responsibly and charitably in the first place?
Churches generally don’t charge to let you in the door.
If you don’t trust the Church with the money (re Theresa), then why raise the scenario in the first place?

I’d like to see your sources for Theresa’s crimes to the poor. Considering most poor Indians, Hindus included, praise her a lot, your story sounds a bit conspiracy-theorist.

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Posted: 07 April 2012 10:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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inthegobi - 07 April 2012 06:36 PM

Asanta:

On selling the art to ‘billionaires’ and then using the money:
Breaking up collections is not generally a good idea.
Billionaires tend to like to hang their loot, I mean art, in their private homes, to show everyone they can.

I don’t know about your area of the country, but most of the very fine collections in our museums are on loan from million/billionaires.

Come to think of it, instead of curling the lip at the church for not selling their art to billionaires, why not instead complain that billionaires don’t use their money responsibly and charitably in the first place?

Why should I care how the billionaires donate to charity? They don’t pretend to be humanitarian

Churches generally don’t charge to let you in the door.

Yes, they fleece you after you get in the door.

If you don’t trust the Church with the money (re Theresa), then why raise the scenario in the first place?

I’d like to see your sources for Theresa’s crimes to the poor. Considering most poor Indians, Hindus included, praise her a lot, your story sounds a bit conspiracy-theorist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aplank/Criticisms_of_Mother_Teresa

The Missionaries of Charity do not disclose either the sources of their funds or details of how they are spent. In 1998 an article in the German magazine Stern estimated that the order received about US$50 million a year in donations. Other journalists have given estimates of US$100 million a year. Critics have argued that this money cannot have all been spent on the purpose for which it was donated - aid to the sick and the poor - because the order’s facilities, staffed by nuns and by volunteers and offering little in the way of medical facilities, are very cheap to operate and cannot cost anything like these sums to maintain.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html

MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself—and her order always refused to publish any audit.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/41486

....It happened almost instantly, literally on my first day volunteering. I was shocked to discover the horrifically negligent manner in which this charity operates and the direct contradiction of the public’s general understanding of their work. ....After further investigation and research, I realized that all of the events I had witnessed amounted to nothing more than a systematic human rights violation and a financial scam of monumental proportions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrPjX5_gI1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdYKsiredbM

Her former volunteers are her loudest critics. The ‘mother Teresa’ you know of, is a myth. The truth is that she was a horrid person, and even the East Indians have complained about her. They won’t even go there unless they are absolutely desperate.

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Posted: 08 April 2012 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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inthegobi - 07 April 2012 06:36 PM

Come to think of it, instead of curling the lip at the church for not selling their art to billionaires, why not instead complain that billionaires don’t use their money responsibly and charitably in the first place?

While asanta is right that billionaires don’t generally claim any God-given pastoral role, nevertheless I think many of us here (I believe asanta as well) have complained about the malevolent social role that has been played by many billionaires. They tend to use a small percentage of their money to influence elections rather than have to pay a little more in taxes that might be of social good.

And re. Mother Teresa, I believe Christopher Hitchens has a whole book about her. Never read it, so can’t speak to it.

[ Edited: 08 April 2012 06:24 AM by dougsmith ]
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Posted: 08 April 2012 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Christopher Hitchens book The Missionary Position pretty much laid out all of my criticisms of her ‘charity’, and then some. Another scathing critic is an East Indian by the name of Dr Aroup Chattergee, who has produced videos exposing her.

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Posted: 09 April 2012 06:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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asanta - 08 April 2012 12:09 PM

Another scathing critic is an East Indian by the name of Dr Aroup Chattergee, who has produced videos exposing her.

Yikes! I don’t want to see those videos.  big surprise  LOL

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Posted: 09 April 2012 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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FreeInKy - 09 April 2012 06:55 AM
asanta - 08 April 2012 12:09 PM

Another scathing critic is an East Indian by the name of Dr Aroup Chattergee, who has produced videos exposing her.

Yikes! I don’t want to see those videos.  big surprise  LOL

Hahaha! Sorry, poor choice of words on my part! cool grin

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Posted: 09 April 2012 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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asanta - 09 April 2012 09:07 AM
FreeInKy - 09 April 2012 06:55 AM
asanta - 08 April 2012 12:09 PM

Another scathing critic is an East Indian by the name of Dr Aroup Chattergee, who has produced videos exposing her.

Yikes! I don’t want to see those videos.  big surprise  LOL

Hahaha! Sorry, poor choice of words on my part! cool grin

It’s just the twisted way my mind works, asanta.  wink

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