5 of 5
5
A Moral Conundrum
Posted: 03 April 2012 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  908
Joined  2005-01-14
Egor - 02 April 2012 02:40 PM

The brain does not generate consciousness. That is an absurd atheistic notion. That is, it is what we have to say in order to avoid the supernatural. There is your consciousness; there is your body. Between the two there is what we geneally consider the mind. The brain will die at death, so your consciousness won’t be able to control your body anymore. The only model of death is sleep and dreaming. When you dream, your body is shut off from your consciousness by becoming paralyzed, so your consciousness creates a mind in the form of a dream character or characters, including, usually, you as one of the characters.

There is no reason to think this isn’t what happens after the body dies as well.

That’s what YOU say.  I could just as easily turn this around and say, quoting you, “That is an absurd theistic notion.  That is, it is what you have to say in order to go on believing in God.”  I suppose it wouldn’t profit us much to argue that, because your mind is already made up.

But… assuming you are correct, and our “minds” get along just fine and dandy without bodies, then why do we even HAVE physical bodies in the first place?  What purpose do they serve other than to make evil possible?  I mean, picture it.  Step 1: God decides to create the physical universe.  Step 2: He supernaturally creates the “mind” of Adam and puts it in a physical body.  Step 3: He turns Adam loose to begat an entire race of human beings, plagued from day one by the evils of free will and so on.  And here’s the neat part: somehow the physical joining of these bodies supernaturally creates a “mind” for each of Adam’s children, explanation unknown.  Step 4:  After a few thousand years (a drop in the bucket to eternity), he pulls the plug on the whole thing, wipes out the entire universe.  Those who believed in the fairy tale of Jesus dying to “save them from their sins” will be rewarded by being given a virtual reality holodeck of their very own for the rest of eternity, where they will do nothing constructive.  Everybody else basically gets fried.

Does this strike you as a reasonable and efficient use of his time?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 April 2012 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2787
Joined  2011-11-04
Occam. - 03 April 2012 11:57 AM

Since I assume Egor is a normal male, and he’s going to go to his heaven and have constant dreams, he may worry about getting bored with all through eternity having over and over, nocternal emissions.  LOL

Occam

Occam, Is it just me, or do your think a lot about sex for someone your age?  smile  (Maybe I just need to follow your diet and exercise regimen.)

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 April 2012 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5181
Joined  2010-06-16

Hey, my body may have gone all to hell, but my memory is still quite functional. LOL

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 April 2012 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  102
Joined  2012-01-07
advocatus - 03 April 2012 12:04 PM

That’s what YOU say.  I could just as easily turn this around and say, quoting you, “That is an absurd theistic notion.  That is, it is what you have to say in order to go on believing in God.”  I suppose it wouldn’t profit us much to argue that, because your mind is already made up.

But… assuming you are correct, and our “minds” get along just fine and dandy without bodies, then why do we even HAVE physical bodies in the first place?

To learn lessons and gain wisdom we will use in the Kingdom of Heaven.

What purpose do they serve other than to make evil possible?  I mean, picture it.  Step 1: God decides to create the physical universe.  Step 2: He supernaturally creates the “mind” of Adam and puts it in a physical body.  Step 3: He turns Adam loose to begat an entire race of human beings, plagued from day one by the evils of free will and so on.  And here’s the neat part: somehow the physical joining of these bodies supernaturally creates a “mind” for each of Adam’s children, explanation unknown.  Step 4:  After a few thousand years (a drop in the bucket to eternity), he pulls the plug on the whole thing, wipes out the entire universe.  Those who believed in the fairy tale of Jesus dying to “save them from their sins” will be rewarded by being given a virtual reality holodeck of their very own for the rest of eternity, where they will do nothing constructive.  Everybody else basically gets fried.

Does this strike you as a reasonable and efficient use of his time?

I’m not a Jew and I’m not a Christian, so I’m not going to debate the Old Testament with you.

By the way, to anyone who is interested. I reviewed this site on my website, The Veridican. Take a look at it if you’re interested.

 Signature 

Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 April 2012 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2787
Joined  2011-11-04

Egor, Your review seemed fair, to me.  BTW, you mis-spelled Review in the title: “Reveiw of Center for Inquiry”.  (You transposed the i and e.)

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 03 April 2012 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1201
Joined  2009-05-10

Yes, good review. I might have to check out those other sites

 Signature 

“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  102
Joined  2012-01-07
TimB - 03 April 2012 04:31 PM

Egor, Your review seemed fair, to me.  BTW, you mis-spelled Review in the title: “Reveiw of Center for Inquiry”.  (You transposed the i and e.)

Thanks. It’s fixed.

 Signature 

Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  102
Joined  2012-01-07
domokato - 03 April 2012 04:38 PM

Yes, good review. I might have to check out those other sites

Thank you, Domokato.

 Signature 

Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 03:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15305
Joined  2006-02-14
Egor - 03 April 2012 03:48 PM

By the way, to anyone who is interested. I reviewed this site on my website, The Veridican. Take a look at it if you’re interested.

Thanks, yes, it looks like a fair review to me as well.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5181
Joined  2010-06-16

I also agree that it’s a fair review, however, it appears that Egor values hot or furious argument styles more than we do and feels we are too Spock-like.  That’s probably an accurate evaluation, however, I far prefer reading and participating in reasonable discussions rather than in flame wars, even if on the low burner.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  908
Joined  2005-01-14
Egor - 03 April 2012 03:48 PM

To learn lessons and gain wisdom we will use in the Kingdom of Heaven.

But what kind of “lessons” you learned in this life are going to be applicable if, as you claim, your supernatural “mind” is going to spend the afterlife in a self-contained dream world?

I’m not a Jew and I’m not a Christian, so I’m not going to debate the Old Testament with you.

Okay, fair enough.  But I wasn’t talking about the Old Testament.  Practically all the evils of the world derive from the biological fact that our physical bodies require maintenance… food, clothing, shelter, etc, so much that we sometimes have to fight over limited resources.  If we could exist as indestructible non-physical forms without any need of any of that, wouldn’t that be better all around?  Why didn’t God just create us that way in the first place?

By the way, to anyone who is interested. I reviewed this site on my website, The Veridican. Take a look at it if you’re interested.

Very nice review.  Actually, being a Trekkie, I consider “Spock-like” a compliment!  Our feelings are part of being Human, naturally, but too often we let our anger run away with us.  Once a debate becomes a shouting match, you can generally give up all hope of reaching a rational conclusion.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1201
Joined  2009-05-10
Egor - 27 March 2012 12:51 AM

If atheism is true, it is better to be the best sociopath you can be. Not the kind that can’t control their impulse to drive 200 mph in a residential neighborhood, but the kind that can coldly calculate what is in their best interests and eliminate anything or anyone that opposes that. Also, to impregnate as many women as possible. And women should have as many babies from as many different fathers as possible. In fact, it would be best to enslave women to be artificially impregnated with your own ovums.  In fact, genocide/genetic engineering is the only way to go. Eventually, the clones of the strongest person left standing will be all that populate the earth.

Egor, please watch this TED talk: http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/13123/

Sociopathy is analogous to being a free rider in the “free rider problem”. Cooperation has evolved many times in different species. So being a sociopath may not be the most rational thing.

 Signature 

“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 April 2012 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2787
Joined  2011-11-04
Egor - 04 April 2012 01:30 AM
TimB - 03 April 2012 04:31 PM

Egor, Your review seemed fair, to me.  BTW, you mis-spelled Review in the title: “Reveiw of Center for Inquiry”.  (You transposed the i and e.)

Thanks. It’s fixed.

For future reference, the rule is:  “i” before “e”, except after “c”, or when sounded as “a” as in “neighbor” or “weigh”.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 April 2012 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1191
Joined  2011-08-01
Egor - 02 April 2012 02:40 PM

The brain does not generate consciousness. That is an absurd atheistic notion. That is, it is what we have to say in order to avoid the supernatural. There is your consciousness; there is your body. Between the two there is what we geneally consider the mind. The brain will die at death, so your consciousness won’t be able to control your body anymore. The only model of death is sleep and dreaming. When you dream, your body is shut off from your consciousness by becoming paralyzed, so your consciousness creates a mind in the form of a dream character or characters, including, usually, you as one of the characters.

So, if consciousness is unrelated to brain activity, then what do you do with all the data that points in the opposite direction? Why does damage to the brain, or even chemical imbalances, cause extreme change in behavior? Why does stimulating certain areas of the brain produce emotional responses? Why do certain psychotic drugs drastically alter behavior? Why can we pinpoint specific types of conscious behavior to specific structures in the brain using FMRI?

With all the evidence linking the physiology of the brain with consciousness—and not a single solitary shred of evidence to the contrary—you have the audacity to call it an “absurd atheistic notion”? Now that’s absurd!  LOL

 Signature 

Free in Kentucky
—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

Profile
 
 
   
5 of 5
5