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So I believe in UFOs
Posted: 11 April 2012 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Yep. I’ve studied the subject for some time and have come to the conclusion that some UFOs are controlled by a non-human intelligence.

Here’s my evidence:

1. 1976 Tehran UFO Incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAi9AIHdxo
2. 1986 JAL 1628 UFO Incident
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/jalalaska.htm
3. 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case279.htm
4. 1980 Peruvian Pilot Fires at UFO
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread573372/pg1
5. 1981 Trans-en-Provence UFO landing
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case110.htm
6. 1964 Lonnie Zamora UFO landing
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case90.htm
7. Circled by a UFO (1982 Julio Guerra encounter)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread667873/pg1
8. Robert Jacobs 1964 Shoot-down of Missile by UFO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7CPLQvd5Rk
9. 1979 Frederick Valentich disappearance
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case24.htm
10. Portage County UFO Police Chase
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case79.htm
11. 2000 Several Witnesses see Triangle UFO
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case277.htm
12. 1997 Pheonix Lights Boomerang
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case270.htm
13. 2000 Fox Lake UFO encounter
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case115.htm
14. 1964 Salt Lake City Airport UFO sighting
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case638.htm
15. 1954 Bethune/Gandor UFO sighting
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case980.htm
16. 1966 Westall, Australia UFO Incident
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case591.htm
17. Nash/Fortenberry UFO Sighting
http://www.ufocasebook.com/nashfortenberrysighting1952.html
18. 2007 Ray Bowyer UFO Sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1148.htm
19. 2006 O’Hare Airport UFO Sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case958.htm
20. 2008 Stephenville, Texas UFO Flap
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1156.htm
21. 1996 Giant UFO over Yukon Territory
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case96.html
22. 1996: Pilot Encounters Pyramid Shaped UFO
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1156.htm
23. 1995: Pilots Observe Disk-Shaped UFO Illuminated by Lightning
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case225.htm
24. 62 Children observe UFO and ‘Alien’ in Zimbabwe
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case127.htm
25. 1989/1990 Belgian UFO Flap
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1125.htm
26. 1989: UFO Hovers Over Russian Military Base
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1125.htm
27. The Hudson Valley Flap
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1084.htm
28. 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO Incident
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case86.htm
29. Police Officer Observes and Photographs disk in 1979
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case877.htm
30. 1973 Coyne Helicopter Incident
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case104.htm
31. Three Small UFOs Pace Mexican Aircraft
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case311.htm
32. Alexander the Great Witnesses Flying Saucer
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case491.htm
33. UFO Battle Over Nuremburg, Germany 1561
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case486.htm
34. 1947 Kenneth Arnold UFO Sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case511.htm
35. 1944 Bomber Encounters UFO
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread825459/pg1
36. 1947 Plane UFO Sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case723.htm
37. Chiles/Whitted UFO Sighting, 1948
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case116.htm
38. Electrician observes disk in 1948
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case675.htm
39. Gorman Dogfight
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case704.htm
40. Employees of Aeronautical Laboratory see disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case728.htm
41. 1949: Astronomer observes UFO
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case355.htm
42. 1950: Airline pilots observe Disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case677.htm
43. McMinnville UFO Photos
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case258.htm
44. Cigar shaped UFO witnessed by Pilot and Passengers
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case648.htm
45. Edward Ruppelt: F-86 Shoots at UFO
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1024.html
46. Two scientists report small disk in 1952
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case34.htm
47. Naval boat encounters saucer
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1078.htm
48. B-29 Encounters Extremely fast Maneuvering blue orbs in 1952
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case16.htm
49. Astronaut Gordon Cooper UFO sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case357.htm
50. RB-47 UFO incident
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case665.htm
51. Levelland, Texas UFO Flap
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case228.htm
52. Ubatuba UFO Fragments
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case829.htm
53. Kelly-Hopskinville Creatures
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case524.htm

54. Father Gill UFO sighting
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case67.htm
55. 1960 Red Bluff UFO Incident
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case107.htm
56. Betty and Barney Hill Abduction (1961)
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case315.htm
57. UFO Abduction witnessed by Police
http://www.ufocasebook.com/Manhattan.html
58. (+/- 50 physical trace files: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/topcases.html)
59. Chinese Pilot Chases UFO
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1074.htm
60. Disk witnessed by pilots and tracked on Radar
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1062.htm
61. Pilot Sees disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case656.htm
62. Veteran Pilot observes UFO with portholes
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case37.htm
63. Maneuverable disk observed by pilots 1973
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case15.htm
64. Pilot and passenger of airplane see disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case551.htm
65. UFO ‘Miles Long’ reported by Retired Chilean General
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case997.htm
66. Malmstrom AFB UFO encounter
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1017.htm
67. Giant UFO seen by Soldier during Algerian War
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case594.htm
68. Several Trained observers report disk over White Sands Proving Ground
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case1095.htm
69. Several Police officers report hovering domed disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case425.htm
70. Several Witnesses Report high performance disks (swamp gas case)
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case778.html
71. UFO Witnessed by South-African Constables leaves physical traces
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case555.htm
72. Exeter NH UFO sightings
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case426.htm
73. Police officer Reports disk
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case341.htm
74. Danish policeman has two close-encounters
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case734.html
75. UFO lands in reservoir
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case796.htm
76. Falcon Lake UFO encounter
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case376.htm
77. UFO and ‘greys’ leave physical traces
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case140.htm
78. Edwin Fuhr UFO leaves physical traces
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case304.htm
79. Delphos, Kansas UFO ring
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case192.htm
80. 1966 Tully Saucer Nest
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case65.html
81. UFO near Austrailian Beach leaves physical traces
http://ufoevidence.org/cases/case27.htm
82. Cato, Missouri physical evidence case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewzAPbaPqGg (go to 4:30 minutes in video)
83. Ocala, Florida Radar/Visual UFO sighting
http://www.ufoskeptic.org/
84. 1988 Coast Guard UFO report
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread532551/pg1
85. Davis-Monthan AFB UFO encounter
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread521887/pg1
86. Val Johnson UFO case
http://www.ufoskeptic.org/
87. 1897 Aurora, Texas UFO crash
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread270137/pg1
88. The Case for Roswell (warning: very long!)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread142871/pg1
89. The Wave of 1947
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread651611/pg1
90. The 1954 Australian ‘Sea Fury’ Incident
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread624001/pg1
91. A train/UFO encounter
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case26.htm
92. UFOs Buzz the Capitol! 1952
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=133876
93. Giant UFOs pace airliner
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread817140/pg1
94. Alien Sphere?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread367575/pg1
95. Pilots witness Flying Triangle in the 1960s
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread755722/pg1
96. The Flatwoods Monster
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread434208/pg1
97. UFO making right angle turns at high speed?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread543363/pg1
98. Jean-Pierre Fartek III’s UFO Encounter
http://www.ufocasebook.com/2010/fartek1979.html
99. Minot AFB UFO Encounter
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread546470/pg1&flagit=546470
100. Aramath UFO Case
http://www.ufocasebook.com/2010/nancyfrance1982.html
101. Redmond, Oregon UFO 1959
http://www.nicap.org/reports/oregon3.htm
102. Hungarian Pilot Films disk in 2001
http://ufoevidence.org/photographs/section/topphotos/photo62.htm
103. Police Officer observes and photographs disk
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case877.htm
104. Astronomer observes triangle-shaped UFO
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case655.htm
105. The Hulman CAA case
http://www.nicap.org/reports/511009parisIL_report.htm
106. Astronomer that Discovered Pluto sees UFO in 1949
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case355.htm
107. 1957 Kirtland AFB UFO sighting
http://nicap.org/kirtland57dir.htm

108. Fort Monmouth UFO Sighting
http://www.nicap.org/monmouthdir.htm
109. Two Police Constables Witness Low-flying Disk in 1978
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread774598/pg1
110. Cherry Creek UFO landing
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread826661/pg1#pid13832544
111. Security Police Report Lighted Saucer 25 feet in Diameter
43365674be16.gif
112. 1917 Fatima “Miracle of the Sun”
http://www.ufoseek.org/fatimajv.htm
113. 1977 Colares Hostile Encounters
http://www.ufocasebook.com/colares1977.html
114. Disk Photographed by Hungarian Military Pilot
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case404.htm
115. 1965 Alligator/Police UFO Encounter
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread736671/pg1
116. Disk Shoots down “Light Beam” in 1975
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case269.htm
117. Pilot Observes Cone-Shaped UFO “Size of Football Field”
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case552.htm
118. UFO Observed Hovering over Japanese Airport in 1976
http://www.nicap.org/761017japan_dir.htm
119. Airliner and Later Interceptor encounter “Top Shaped” UFO with “incredible speed”
http://www.nicap.org/Chronology/73.htm (scroll down to November 8 sighting) Better source: The UFO Evidence, Volume II Richard Hall pages 86-87


Pilot Catalouge
http://www.project1947.com/47cats/acufoe.htm

Operation Mainbrace Sightings
http://www.ufocasebook.com/operationmainbrace1952.html

Suggested Reading:
UFO Evidence Volumes I and II, Richard Hall
UFOs and the National Security State, Volumes I and II, Richard Dolan
The UFO Experience, J. Allen Hynek
The Hynek UFO Report, J. Allen Hynek
UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials go on the Record, Leslie Kean (16 other authors)


Suggested UFO Documentaries:

I Know What I Saw
Out of the Blue
UFOs Are Real (1979)
Secret Access: UFOs on the Record
UFOs Best Evidence: Government Cover-up

This being said, I’m openminded about the subject and interested in any ideas you guys have. grin

[ Edited: 11 April 2012 04:50 PM by voyager ]
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Posted: 11 April 2012 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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If you seriously want to discuss this, do us a favor. I don’t have the time or the inclination to pore over all of those links. How about this. Why don’t you pick the one you consider to be the most credible and give us a synopsis, along with any relevant links. Then we can hash it out. Fair enough?

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Posted: 11 April 2012 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Very good point, F.I.K.  smile

Occam

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Posted: 11 April 2012 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Your evidence consists of Youtube clips and Above Top Secret forum threads, along with websites dedicated to the “scientific study” of U.F.O’s? hmmm  Those links show nothing substantial.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 06:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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If there are really superhuman alien intelligences out there buzzing Earth with their spacecraft, why don’t they just show up on the White House lawn?

Fact is, every time anyone in an aircraft sees a warning light reflected off the windscreen it gets written up as a UFO and never forgotten by the legion of conspiracy theorists. Remember: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Nothing I’ve seen even remotely qualifies.

But ... as we’ve seen time and again here, conspiracy theories never die, no matter the implausibility or lack of evidence.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 06:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I agree completely with Occam. Also you need to ask yourself do you believe in UFO’s because the evidence is truly compelling and more so than any alternate explanation or do you believe because you want to believe.

There are a number of reasons to question the idea that UFOs are alien visitors.

1) Interstellar distances are enormous and while I would love to believe that we might someday develop the technology to cross those distances everything we know about physics says that it most likely will never be possible.

2) If an alien species somehow did find a way to cross the immense void between star systems why would they spend 60 years flitting around our skies, abducting and examining us and not doing anything else. If they really are so advanced that they are just studying us with no interest in contacting us why have they been sloppy and stupid enough to be glimpsed hundreds of times. Why do they fly over populated cities at night with bright lights on or in the middle of the day in broad daylight.

3) Why after 60 years is there no solid evidence of the existence of aliens. Every photo ever taken of a UFO is fuzzy and out of focus despite the ubiquitous presence of cameras and good photographers all over the world. We have amazing photos of virtually every other natural and man made phenomena, even those which are extremely rare, but not a single great photo of a UFO that isnt clearly faked. Why is there no physical evidence of any of the landings or contacts. I’m talking about solid undeniable evidence like biological samples which are clearly of extraterrestrial origin not depressions in the soft ground that supposedly have traces of “unidentifiable alloys” in them.

None of this makes any logical sense when there are more rational explanations.  If you have a strong desire to believe in aliens then you can come up with a number of unlikely ways to explain away these problems with the alien hypothesis but you would be doing so because its what you want to believe not because its the explanation that best fits the events.

[ Edited: 11 April 2012 06:45 PM by macgyver ]
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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Argument from Ignorance Logical Fallacy. 

Not knowing what the identity of an object in the sky does not mean you know it is an intelligently-piloted alien craft from another solar system.  Not knowing =/= knowing.  Not knowing = not knowing.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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dougsmith - 11 April 2012 06:35 PM

If there are really superhuman alien intelligences out there buzzing Earth with their spacecraft, why don’t they just show up on the White House lawn?

Perhaps they aren’t even interested in us and are only doing certain business in our area. Remember, when I go out to rake my lawn, I don’t talk to the squirrels out there. then again, I don’t hide from them either.

Remember: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Nothing I’ve seen even remotely qualifies.

Who defines extraordinary? To me there is nothing extraordinary about the concept of alien life and possibly visitation. We don’t know how aliens think, therefore we can’t determine what is extraordinary for them.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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FreeInKy - 11 April 2012 05:39 PM

If you seriously want to discuss this, do us a favor. I don’t have the time or the inclination to pore over all of those links. How about this. Why don’t you pick the one you consider to be the most credible and give us a synopsis, along with any relevant links. Then we can hash it out. Fair enough?

Yes, I apologize for the sloppy-ness of my post.

Here is an interesting case…

Just after 11 p.m. on October 18, 1973 a U.S. Army reserve crew was flying a helicopter from Columbus to Cleveland, Ohio. They included Captain Lawrence Coyne (19 years flying experience), Lt. Arrigo Jezzi, Sergeant John Healey, and Sergeant Robert Yanacsek. At 2,500 feet and good visibility, the crew noticed a red light to the west, slowly moving south. They assumed it was probably an F-100 out of Mansfield. Very abruptly, however, the light changed course and began to head right at them. Captain Coyne put the helicopter into emergency evasion in a controlled descent. When he tried to confirm the existence of a craft out of Mansfield, his UHF and VHF frequencies went dead. (Mansfield later confirmed there were no aircraft in the area.) The red light continued to close, becoming brighter, while the helicopter descended at the rapid speed of 2,000 feet per minute.

At 1,700 feet above the ground, the crew saw the object streak in front of, then above, the helicopter. It stopped dead for about 10 seconds, filling the entire windscreen. All four crewmembers saw it clearly: it looked like a grey cigar with a small dome on top. One member thought he saw windows. The red light was still there, in the front of the object, and there was a white light on the side and green one on the bottom. The green light swung around like a searchlight and shone into the cabin, bathing it in green light. The object then accelerated to the west, soon appearing as nothing more than a white light. It made a sharp turn and moved northwest where it was lost above Lake Erie.

Meanwhile, the helicopter’s magnetic compass had been spinning at a rate of four revolutions per minute. More seriously, and for no clear reason, the altimeter showed an altitude of 3,500 feet and a climbing ascent of 1,000 feet per minute. Yet the stick (for descent) still pointed down. Coyne had not attempted to ascend, but his aircraft climbed to an altitude of 3,800 feet before he regained control. A few minutes later, radio frequencies returned. A complete inspection the next day found nothing wrong, and the event received a thorough investigation.

By itself, it was an amazing story. It was strengthened, however, by the presence of ground witnesses. A woman while driving with her four children claimed to have seen the entire encounter, including the green beam, which she said lit the ground around her.

http://www.ufoskeptic.org/mansfield.html

Any explanations?

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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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1) Interstellar distances are enormous and while I would love to believe that we might someday develop the technology to cross those distances everything we know about physics says that it most likely will never be possible.

Basing your argument on something being impossible isn’t a very good idea.

Skeptic Quote—“Radio has no future. Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible. X-rays will prove to be a hoax.”
—William Thomson, Lord Kelvin English scientist, 1899.

2) If an alien species somehow did find a way to cross the immense void between star systems why would they spend 60 years flitting around our skies, abducting and examining us and not doing anything else. If they really are so advanced that they are just studying us with no interest in contacting us why have they been sloppy and stupid enough to be glimpsed hundreds of times. Why do they fly over populated cities at night with bright lights on or in the middle of the day in broad daylight.

Perhaps they don’t care if they are seen. as I have said in an earlier post, I don’t talk or hide from the squirrels in my back yard.

3) Why after 60 years is there no solid evidence of the existence of aliens. Every photo ever taken of a UFO is fuzzy and out of focus despite the ubiquitous presence of cameras and good photographers all over the world. We have amazing photos of virtually every other natural and man made phenomena, even those which are extremely rare, but not a single great photo of a UFO that isnt clearly faked. Why is there no physical evidence of any of the landings or contacts. I’m talking about solid undeniable evidence like biological samples which are clearly of extraterrestrial origin not depressions in the soft ground that supposedly have traces of “unidentifiable alloys” in them.

Would you expect undeniable biological samples of human tissue if a piloted helicopter landed for a few seconds and then took off again?

And there is evidence of a government cover up of the undeniable proof such as bodies and a saucer as you would like.

Here is an interesting documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1abiPr2Prj4

Check out the testimony at 18:35

And although this isn’t the biological undeniable proof that you seek, UFOs do leave physical traces.
http://www.virtuallystrange.com/cptr.us/highstrange.html

I respect your position, and it is a strong one. there really isn’t much hard evidence for UFOs. However I believe the little evidence there is suggests differently.

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 09:48 AM by voyager ]
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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Rocinante - 11 April 2012 07:13 PM

Argument from Ignorance Logical Fallacy. 

Not knowing what the identity of an object in the sky does not mean you know it is an intelligently-piloted alien craft from another solar system.  Not knowing =/= knowing.  Not knowing = not knowing.

Agreed.

Seeing an unidentified light in the sky doesn’t convince me. And I never claimed I “knew” anything, in fact I specifically stated I was openminded and interested in other ideas.

What convinces me is the close range sightings of machines making incredible maneuvers as well as displaying intelligent control. Not to mention the abductions and sightings of “alien” beings piloting the craft in question.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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voyager - 11 April 2012 07:27 PM

Any explanations?

Yes. Stories get taller with each re-telling.  Human love stories.  From the time of the Greeks and their tragedies to our current crop of 500 TV channels, we love stories.  We love them so much we tell them so much that over the course of time we add things to make them better and more exciting.  It’s human nature.  What humans are not very good at are being reliable eyewitnesses. 

The part about the compass was not in the original report.  It was added in years later.  Likewise, the alleged ground witness was not part of the original story and only came forward years later after a newspaper said it was looking for people who saw a UFO.  An investigation into their claims said their tale was “spurious.” 

The part about no radio contact was due to the copter being beyond line-of-sight range to these airports. 

The sighting happened on Oct. 18, which just happened to be at the peak activity of the annual Orionids meteor shower. 

It was most likely a meteor-fireball.  When told this, Coyne said, “Well, that would sound like a logical explanation.”

Source.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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It was most likely a meteor-fireball.

Right. A meteor that approaches a helicopter, stops and hovers in front of it, emits a green beam of light through the heli and then flies away in the opposite direction? I’m not convinced.

drawing of the meteor:
coyne.jpg

Other arguments against that theory:
(1) the duration of the event (an estimated 300 seconds); (2) the marked deceleration and hard-angle maneuver of the object at closest approach; (3) the precisely defined shape of the object; and (4) the horizon-to-horizon flight path.

How could four ground witnesses plus trained military personel misidentify a fireball-meteor?

[ Edited: 11 April 2012 08:00 PM by voyager ]
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Posted: 11 April 2012 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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voyager - 11 April 2012 07:43 PM

What convinces me is the close range sightings of machines making incredible maneuvers as well as displaying intelligent control. Not to mention the abductions and sightings of “alien” beings piloting the craft in question.

What about all the past close range sightings of dragons, unicorns, fairies, mermaids, sprites, gnomes, leprechauns, succubi, incubi, werewolves and phantom gassers?  In times gone by, people were absolutely convinced of such things, complete with “eyewitness” accounts for all of them.  The one constant that we absolutely know for an undeniable fact is that human beings are very easily fooled - both by outside stimuli and by themselves.  Simply put, people can’t be trusted to be reliable eyewitnesses. 

Eyewitnesses of dragons, unicorns, et al. were products of their time and culture and “saw” what they were expected to see.  Once the space age dawned upon us, the mermaids and werewolves faded away and people started “seeing” little green men.  This image evolved over time (from robots and giant monsters) to today’s pop culture convention of grey skinned, big black eyes and heads too large to fit through the birth canal of the alleged tiny torso.  It is also incredibly conceited to think that aliens would have our exact same basic biological set-up.  Evolution here on Earth has provided a countless variety.  To think evolution from another galaxy would come up with a body shape that is nearly identical to humans is more incredible than the concept of alien life coming here in the first place.  If they do exist (which I think is very likely), and if they ever do come here (which I highly doubt), they won’t look like us.

[ Edited: 11 April 2012 08:02 PM by Rocinante ]
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Posted: 11 April 2012 08:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Voyager when i was younger ( my teens) I was a strong believer in the alien theory of UFO’s and collected everything I could read on the subject but as time went on a pattern emerged that I could not deny. Most of the people who claimed to witness or be victims of a UFO visitation were just not believable. When you become a better judge of human nature you start to notice things about people that allow you to get some insight into their credibility.

Some people who report UFO experiences are outright liars, others truly believe they have seen something extraordinary but are not very objective or critical in their thinking and it shows in their description of what they’ve seen. As I mentioned above al the material and physical evidence that has ever been presented is shabby and amateurish suggesting that it is all fraudulent.

You believe in this not because the evidence supports your view but because you want to believe its true. You believe in this for the same reason that many people believe there is a god. They see god in a stain on the wall or in the survival of a child in a plane crash when a hundred others died. You see evidence where you want to see it not because its the most likely conclusion of the available facts.

As stated above, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You ask who decides what is an extraordinary claim. Our view of the universe and the world around us is made up of theories which have developed over hundreds of years and are supported by multiple lines of evidence. We know that if you hold an apple in your hand and you let it go it will fall. you’ve seen gravity work a thousand times. If someone were to tell you that they could turn off gravity at will and assured you that you could stand under a 1,000 lb boulder while they cut the rope I think you wold require extraordinary evidence before you allowed them to do that. Accepted theories and wisdom can be overturned but it requires evidence that is greater than the evidence supporting the opposing view.

If you are going to propose that some unverifiable reports and fuzzy photos are the result of visitation by an alien species who have somehow over come the laws of physics as we know them you need to come up with extraordinary evidence to support that claim. If you choose to believe this without such evidence then you are taking a leap of faith which is what religious believers do.

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Posted: 11 April 2012 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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http://www.ufoseek.org/fatimajv.htm

UFOs aren’t only seen in modern times.

And about people being reliable witnesses:

We can’t claim people are unreliable simply because the object described is unconventional.

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