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So I believe in UFOs
Posted: 12 April 2012 08:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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The ‘evidence’ you have suggesting space travel is impossible will be laughed at in 10000s of years when humans are traveling throughout the universe themselves.

This is an awfully optomistic statement Voyager. How do you know if mankind, assuming we will still be recognized as such, will even be here tens of thousands of years from now? Most futurists are pessimistic that we will destroy ourselves by then. Maybe your aliens will intervene a la Gort.

 

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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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macgyver - 12 April 2012 06:01 AM
voyager - 11 April 2012 08:06 PM

http://www.ufoseek.org/fatimajv.htm

UFOs aren’t only seen in modern times.

And about people being reliable witnesses:

We can’t claim people are unreliable simply because the object described is unconventional.

People were liars and unreliable witnesses in ancient times too and i dont judge people because of what they are describing but how they describe it. When someone describes an UFO experience in a way that shows they have no doubt in their mind it was alien even when their only evidence is what they saw at a great distance then you have to question their judgement.

I showed that link in response to the claim that UFOs are just a modern, space-age version of fairies and goblins. The older case was proving that people saw UFOs back then too, not just now.

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 08:43 AM by voyager ]
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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 07:58 AM
macgyver - 12 April 2012 06:03 AM
voyager - 11 April 2012 08:10 PM

Right, but we don’t have the lines of evidence collected over 1000s of years do we? We have no idea how aliens think, we have NO past experience with alien intellegence, therefore we don’t know what they can or can’t do.

Again, I respect your opinion, there isn’t any hard evidence for UFOs. I guess I just don’t think all these people are lying/misidentifying things.

What we do have is a lot of good scientific evidence that interstellar space travel is extremely difficult and would require tremendous amounts of energy to accomplish. It is therefor an extraordinary claim to assert that an alien species is doing this on a regular basis and quite casually.

Or perhaps they aren’t coming and going all the way back to their home planet each time. Perhaps they have a base somewhere very close, in this solar system even? The fact is, we don’t know.

The ‘evidence’ you have suggesting space travel is impossible will be laughed at in 10000s of years when humans are traveling throughout the universe themselves.

I never said it was impossible. You keep putting those words in my mouth. I said it would be extremely difficult. The barriers are not simply technological. You wold have to discover laws something truly revolutionary that would violate most of the laws of physics. Its not impossible but its highly unlikely. You cant over come every impossible barrier by allowing time and technology to advance. Maybe there is a way to solve the immense difficulties of interstellar travel but your explanation of UFO’s requires that unlikely event to have happened where as my interpretation can be accomplished with a much simpler explanation.

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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Lights in the sky or anomalous tracks on a radar screen don’t even remotely cut it.

I don’t have the physical proof that you want, but there is evidence that the government has that evidence and has been covering it up.
if you have the time, watch this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLLoHzMbkM if you don’t at least try to see the testimony from the guy at 18:35 minutes

Although I don’t have undeniable physical evidence, UFOs do leave physical traces: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/topcases.html

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 08:46 AM by voyager ]
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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 08:33 AM
macgyver - 12 April 2012 06:01 AM
voyager - 11 April 2012 08:06 PM

http://www.ufoseek.org/fatimajv.htm

UFOs aren’t only seen in modern times.

And about people being reliable witnesses:

We can’t claim people are unreliable simply because the object described is unconventional.

People were liars and unreliable witnesses in ancient times too and i dont judge people because of what they are describing but how they describe it. When someone describes an UFO experience in a way that shows they have no doubt in their mind it was alien even when their only evidence is what they saw at a great distance then you have to question their judgement.

I showed you that link in response to your claim that UFOs are just a modern, space-age version of fairies and goblins. The older case was proving that people saw UFOs back then too, not just now.

I never said that or anything like that. You need to be more careful in what you attribute to who.

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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 07:58 AM

Or perhaps they aren’t coming and going all the way back to their home planet each time. Perhaps they have a base somewhere very close, in this solar system even? The fact is, we don’t know.

So now you’re shoehorning presupposition upon presupposition. You have yet to prove your ‘aliens’ exist. That ol’ ‘extraordinary claims’ thing keeps getting into your way…

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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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asanta - 12 April 2012 08:48 AM
voyager - 12 April 2012 07:58 AM

Or perhaps they aren’t coming and going all the way back to their home planet each time. Perhaps they have a base somewhere very close, in this solar system even? The fact is, we don’t know.

So now you’re shoehorning presupposition upon presupposition. You have yet to prove your ‘aliens’ exist. That ol’ ‘extraordinary claims’ thing keeps getting into your way…

Ok, I’ll give you more evidence.

Gordon Cooper witnessed a UFO land. Please explain his sighting. Here: http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case357.htm

He and several others filmed the craft for some time, and then that film was taken away and never seen again. Explain this please.

Another link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_fKcTk5xDY

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 08:58 AM by voyager ]
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Posted: 12 April 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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And the film evidence of this is….where??

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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asanta - 12 April 2012 08:58 AM

And the film evidence of this is….where??

It was sent to Washington and never seen again.

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 08:38 AM

I don’t have the physical proof that you want, but there is evidence that the government has that evidence and has been covering it up.
if you have the time, watch this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLLoHzMbkM if you don’t at least try to see the testimony from the guy at 18:35 minutes

Although I don’t have undeniable physical evidence, UFOs do leave physical traces: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/topcases.html

More conspiracy garbage. Where is the physical evidence?

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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dougsmith - 12 April 2012 09:12 AM
voyager - 12 April 2012 08:38 AM

I don’t have the physical proof that you want, but there is evidence that the government has that evidence and has been covering it up.
if you have the time, watch this documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYLLoHzMbkM if you don’t at least try to see the testimony from the guy at 18:35 minutes

Although I don’t have undeniable physical evidence, UFOs do leave physical traces: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/topcases.html

More conspiracy garbage. Where is the physical evidence?

Where is your explanation? It seems to be missing?

You call my evidence garbage but you can’t explain it? The physical evidence is the second link, right after I said “UFOs do leave physical traces:”

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 09:19 AM by voyager ]
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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 09:15 AM

You call my evidence garbage but you can’t explain it?

The problem is that you have no evidence. Only tall tales.

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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dougsmith - 12 April 2012 09:19 AM
voyager - 12 April 2012 09:15 AM

You call my evidence garbage but you can’t explain it?

The problem is that you have no evidence. Only tall tales.

Are you calling astronaut Gordon Cooper a liar?

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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voyager - 12 April 2012 09:20 AM

Are you calling astronaut Gordon Cooper a liar?

I don’t know if any of these folks are lying or deluded, but until he or anyone else can provide more evidence than tall tales, nobody has any reason to take any of this nonsense seriously.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Posted: 12 April 2012 09:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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In your personal opinion, my evidence is “garbage”.

In the opinion of any Jury in existence, however, eyewitness testimony is accepted as evidence.

If you are calling Gordon Cooper either a liar or a deluded person, that is your choice. However, I am going to believe him, and I guess that’s where we differ.

I respect your position, there’s no proof, but that’s not reason to dismiss the entire phenomenon, especially when there’s evidence the government has been covering up that proof

[ Edited: 12 April 2012 09:38 AM by voyager ]
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