Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 08:47 AM

Information gleaned may or may not be valid till checked out. There is no guarantee that the information will be wrong.
The effort must still be made by the torturer. To do nothing would be less moral by a long shot.

Regards
DL

You keep making that very bad argument. It is the equivalent to saying that if you prove ‘Darwinism’ false Creationism must by default be true. Not so. I have told you at least twice, that not torturing ≠ doing nothing. You have ignored this point over and over.

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 09:39 AM

Then you would just watch the clock tick down till the million died and do nothing.

This is moral action on your part is it?

Regards
DL

NO!
I totally reject the validity of your line of questioning/thinking in this regard. 

It makes as much sense as spending time pondering
“If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it still make a noise?”

Trying to morph your above sort of fantasy situation into real life guidance has created many more problems
while never solving the original problem, as Bush/Cheney et al. showed us so well.

That’s why I believe it’s phony as a three dollar bill and refuse to play that game.

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 05:26 PM

What can I say?
Some may be able to sit and watch the clock run down on a million lives but not I.

If those millions died, it would not be because I did not pull all the stops to prevent it.

Regards
DL

Yes, you and your godhead are clearly superior.

Write4U - 23 April 2012 06:52 PM

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 05:26 PM

What can I say?
Some may be able to sit and watch the clock run down on a million lives but not I.

If those millions died, it would not be because I did not pull all the stops to prevent it.

Regards
DL

There is a difference between sitting and watching the clock run down and pulling all the stops.
Suppose you got the wrong man? Are we to say “oh well, one more makes no difference”

You are changing the scenario.
In mine, I had the right man.

I would do nothing to an innocent man as there could be no profit, in terms of saving lives, in doing so.

Don’t try to distort what I am saying.

Regards
DL

traveler - 23 April 2012 03:59 PM

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 11:11 AM

That is the moral thing to do. IMO

Just helpin’ ya out… 

Can’t be handsome, may as well be handy.

Regards
DL

asanta - 23 April 2012 09:09 PM

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 08:47 AM

Information gleaned may or may not be valid till checked out. There is no guarantee that the information will be wrong.
The effort must still be made by the torturer. To do nothing would be less moral by a long shot.

Regards
DL

You keep making that very bad argument. It is the equivalent to saying that if you prove ‘Darwinism’ false Creationism must by default be true. Not so. I have told you at least twice, that not torturing ≠ doing nothing. You have ignored this point over and over.

Sure. Because you are adding time for other avenues when there is none.

You just go ahead and do nothing to save many lives because you do not have the courage to act against a mass murder.
The dead million will forgive you. I will not.

Regards
DL

citizenschallenge.pm - 24 April 2012 01:14 AM

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 09:39 AM

Then you would just watch the clock tick down till the million died and do nothing.

This is moral action on your part is it?

Regards
DL

NO!
I totally reject the validity of your line of questioning/thinking in this regard. 
.

It is quite valid to the scenario I created.

You agree that doing nothing but watching the clock run down is wrong yet you would still do nothing. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

traveler - 24 April 2012 05:22 AM

Greatest I am - 23 April 2012 05:26 PM

What can I say?
Some may be able to sit and watch the clock run down on a million lives but not I.

If those millions died, it would not be because I did not pull all the stops to prevent it.

Regards
DL

Yes, you and your godhead are clearly superior.

Thanks.

Perhaps you are not as non-discerning as I thought.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am - 24 April 2012 11:39 AM

It is quite valid to the scenario I created.

You agree that doing nothing but watching the clock run down is wrong yet you would still do nothing. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

Your scenario is not at all realistic. It is delusional.

Greatest I am - 24 April 2012 11:29 AM

You are changing the scenario.
In mine, I had the right man.

I would do nothing to an innocent man as there could be no profit, in terms of saving lives, in doing so.

Don’t try to distort what I am saying.

Regards
DL

Of course you do, That kind of fundamental certainty is damn scary.

asanta - 24 April 2012 12:04 PM

Greatest I am - 24 April 2012 11:29 AM

You are changing the scenario.
In mine, I had the right man.

I would do nothing to an innocent man as there could be no profit, in terms of saving lives, in doing so.

Don’t try to distort what I am saying.

Regards
DL

Of course you do, That kind of fundamental certainty is damn scary.

LOL.
Fundamental certainty in a scenario that I made up myself.

Good thinking there friend.

I think we are done here.

Regards
DL

Another awesome GIA thread. 

TimB, W4U, CC, Asanta, traveler, and VYAZMA are all wrong and only GIA is right. Oh, if only the rest of us had a godhead to guide us.