1 of 4
1
I’m new here. I’m from western New York, and an atheist.
Posted: 18 April 2012 10:21 PM   [ Ignore ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  24
Joined  2012-04-18

I believe overpopulation to be the root cause of many of the problems we face today. I feel its our most serious problem while at the same time is one that goes largely unaddressed.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 04:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15305
Joined  2006-02-14

Several people here have argued the same thing, attaboy. Welcome to the CFI Forum, and please do stick around!

Cheers,

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

Which problems are those, attaboy? Except for global warming which is a serious problem indeed, I am not aware of any. People are healthier than ever before, richer, more educated, less violent, have more freedom and more leisure time. What’s the problem?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 07:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1191
Joined  2011-08-01
George - 19 April 2012 05:39 AM

Which problems are those, attaboy? Except for global warming which is a serious problem indeed, I am not aware of any. People are healthier than ever before, richer, more educated, less violent, have more freedom and more leisure time. What’s the problem?

You just described the top 20% or so of earth’s population. The rest aren’t doing so well.

 Signature 

Free in Kentucky
—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29
FreeInKy - 19 April 2012 07:45 AM
George - 19 April 2012 05:39 AM

Which problems are those, attaboy? Except for global warming which is a serious problem indeed, I am not aware of any. People are healthier than ever before, richer, more educated, less violent, have more freedom and more leisure time. What’s the problem?

You just described the top 20% or so of earth’s population. The rest aren’t doing so well.

No, they aren’t doing well, but are doing better than ever before. They are also getting healthier, richer, more educated, less violent, have more freedom and more leisure time.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5187
Joined  2010-06-16

I agree with yout idea, Attaboy.  While George is correct that our species has been improving until now, I believe we are at a cusp and further growth will follow the Malthusian concept of from here on up it’s all downhill.  It’s much like the experiments with rats and similar animals where everything is fine as they increase the population density in the pen until they reach a certain point where animals begin fighting and killing each other.  While more effective reporting can account for part of it, it seems to me that there is a trend toward decreasing caring for each other.  Selfishness seems to be rising, more people are moving back toward the earlier times poverty, etc.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

The problem here, Occam, is that we used to get stuck in the Multhusian trap all the time up until about 200 years ago (or perhaps a little longer). All the previous populations were obviously a lot smaller than where we are today and one could always see the correlation between the population growth and the deterioration of the people’s well being. What we are experiencing today is very different. Our world is actually getting to be a better place as we get more people (except, once again, for the GW). IOW, for now it seems to be the exact reverse of the Multhusian past. There are a number of theories why this has happened and also what we can expect from the future. I’ve discussed this stuff here many times before, so I won’t repeat it again—unless you want me to.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 09:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5187
Joined  2010-06-16

Nah, I think the only way we’ll know which of is correct is to stick around for another 40 to 60 years and see how the world shifts.  Unfortunately, I won’t be here, but you’ll have a ringside seat for it.  smile

I have no grandchildren, but for your kids’ sake, I hope I’m wrong.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

Well, forget about the future for now and tell me why you think we are currently at a cusp. When, how and why exactly did we stop improving?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5187
Joined  2010-06-16

To quote you (almost):

I’ve discussed this stuff here many times before, so I won’t repeat it again

  smile

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

Me: 2, Occam: 0.  cheese

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  24
Joined  2012-04-18
George - 19 April 2012 05:39 AM

Which problems are those, attaboy? Except for global warming which is a serious problem indeed, I am not aware of any. People are healthier than ever before, richer, more educated, less violent, have more freedom and more leisure time. What’s the problem?

For one, people like you who only think in terms of human welfare are a very big problem. To name a few, deforestation, acid rain, high gas prices, animal extinction can all be traced to too many people. Barring some sensational technological breakthroughs and changes in our thinking, the “cusp” that was mentioned in another post was passed some time ago. We just don’t realize it yet.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

Reg. deforestation and acid rain, I remember reading about The New York Times when some time back in the 80s it declared the danger a “scientific consensus” estimating that by 2002 all the forests would be gone! Later study then found out there was no evidence for accid rain causing deforestation and according to Sweden’s government the nitric acid (a fertilizer) in fact increased the growth of the forests.

As far as the price of gas goes, well, maybe it’ll turn out to be a good thing. We’ll see…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9284
Joined  2006-08-29

BTW, I am ignoring for now you referring to me as a “very big problem” because I find this topic interesting and I enjoy talking about it. But please take note that in the future I may choose to defend myself accordingly. Just a warning; I wouldn’t want you to be surprised when it happens.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 07:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  24
Joined  2012-04-18
George - 19 April 2012 06:11 PM

Reg. deforestation and acid rain, I remember reading about The New York Times when some time back in the 80s it declared the danger a “scientific consensus” estimating that by 2002 all the forests would be gone! Later study then found out there was no evidence for accid rain causing deforestation and according to Sweden’s government the nitric acid (a fertilizer) in fact increased the growth of the forests.

As far as the price of gas goes, well, maybe it’ll turn out to be a good thing. We’ll see…

George,

Sorry if this offends you, but it now seems obvious to me that you’re also limited in the ability for critical thought, along with an inability to see past your myopic focus on human welfare. On top of that you have little grasp of the problems I mentioned.

While deforestation is caused by acid rain (You’re wrong George, about deforestation/acid rain despite what Sweden may say. Of course you should have given a reference to that. Frankly, I don’t think Sweden is that stupid to have made such a statement.) what I was referring to was the massive logging operations worldwide to meet growing human needs. The Amazon region has been devastated! And a simple google search turns up much evidence for the damage caused by acid rain. Don’t try to be a chemist or misinform us further, George, for it is well known that nitric acid is not a good fertilizer.

Regarding your New York Times “scientific consensus” comment, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Times sued you for libel.

As far as the price of gas goes, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that if we had fewer people to share the existing oil reserves, we wouldn’t have to pay so much for gas.

I was hoping when I came to this site that I would run into intelligent, enlightened people. Instead, George, I ran into you.

I hope you will realize you’ve made a fool of yourself and will act accordingly. You wouldn’t be on this site if I was running it, and I won’t be responding to anymore of your worthless untrue dribble.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 19 April 2012 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  24
Joined  2012-04-18
George - 19 April 2012 06:11 PM

Reg. deforestation and acid rain, I remember reading about The New York Times when some time back in the 80s it declared the danger a “scientific consensus” estimating that by 2002 all the forests would be gone! Later study then found out there was no evidence for accid rain causing deforestation and according to Sweden’s government the nitric acid (a fertilizer) in fact increased the growth of the forests.

As far as the price of gas goes, well, maybe it’ll turn out to be a good thing. We’ll see…

Just a little research makes it obvious that Sweden is very much concerned about the devastation of their forests by acid rain. They are also quite concerned with the negative impact on wildlife.

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 4
1
 
‹‹ Hello from Carlisle      Hello from Kansas ››