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I’m new here. I’m from western New York, and an atheist.
Posted: 21 April 2012 01:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Mriana - 20 April 2012 09:39 PM

Welcome to CFI boards, attaboy.  Glad to have you here.

Thanks for the welcome, Mriana. But I don’t know how much longer I will be coming here. What I’ve experienced so far is largely both discouraging and depressing. I thought that if there was any forum where I’d encounter intelligent critical thought it would be in a forum sponsored by Center for Inquiry. To be kind, let’s just say it has not been that way. I can’t understand why some of the mentalities I’ve encountered on this board would want to be in a forum like this in the first place. I won’t say anymore just as I’m not going to respond further to the “mindsets” I’ve run into here.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 02:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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attaboy - 21 April 2012 01:22 AM
Mriana - 20 April 2012 09:39 PM

Welcome to CFI boards, attaboy.  Glad to have you here.

Thanks for the welcome, Mriana. But I don’t know how much longer I will be coming here. What I’ve experienced so far is largely both discouraging and depressing. I thought that if there was any forum where I’d encounter intelligent critical thought it would be in a forum sponsored by Center for Inquiry. To be kind, let’s just say it has not been that way. I can’t understand why some of the mentalities I’ve encountered on this board would want to be in a forum like this in the first place. I won’t say anymore just as I’m not going to respond further to the “mindsets” I’ve run into here.

Uh-huh.  Are you a college student?

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Posted: 21 April 2012 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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mid atlantic - 21 April 2012 02:11 AM
attaboy - 21 April 2012 01:22 AM
Mriana - 20 April 2012 09:39 PM

Welcome to CFI boards, attaboy.  Glad to have you here.

Thanks for the welcome, Mriana. But I don’t know how much longer I will be coming here. What I’ve experienced so far is largely both discouraging and depressing. I thought that if there was any forum where I’d encounter intelligent critical thought it would be in a forum sponsored by Center for Inquiry. To be kind, let’s just say it has not been that way. I can’t understand why some of the mentalities I’ve encountered on this board would want to be in a forum like this in the first place. I won’t say anymore just as I’m not going to respond further to the “mindsets” I’ve run into here.

Uh-huh.  Are you a college student?

Uh- No. Why do you need to know?

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Posted: 21 April 2012 05:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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FWIW attaboy I’m inclined to agree with your OP, though George is also right that things have gotten much better for humanity over the past several centuries. (See Pinker’s most recent book for reams of evidence on this, at least as regards violence).

Thing is that on teh internets you end up butting heads with all kinds of people who have different viewpoints. If you strive to argue your position by reference to the facts, along the way you can learn more while butting heads. To that end it might help to go find references from reputable sources that back up your contentions. Your adversaries might not agree with them, but at least you will have buttressed your opinions for people hanging out on the fences.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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George - 20 April 2012 11:41 AM

The acid-rain alarmists of the 80s were wrong

Acid rain was a real problem:

220px-Waldschaeden_Erzgebirge_3.jpg
Trees killed by acid rain

220px-Pollution_-_Damaged_by_acid_rain.jpg
Effect of acid rain on statues

But measures were taken to reduce SO2. CO2 cannot easily be reduced, because it is so to speak the essence of burning fossil fuels.

Maybe you mean alarmist “Forest dieback” in the 80’s. Yes, it was not so bad as originally thought. But it is not over yet. See here.

[ Edited: 21 April 2012 06:25 AM by GdB ]
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Posted: 21 April 2012 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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dougsmith - 21 April 2012 05:55 AM

FWIW attaboy I’m inclined to agree with your OP, though George is also right that things have gotten much better for humanity over the past several centuries. (See Pinker’s most recent book for reams of evidence on this, at least as regards violence).

Thing is that on teh internets you end up butting heads with all kinds of people who have different viewpoints. If you strive to argue your position by reference to the facts, along the way you can learn more while butting heads. To that end it might help to go find references from reputable sources that back up your contentions. Your adversaries might not agree with them, but at least you will have buttressed your opinions for people hanging out on the fences.

It seems to me most every aspect I talked about is so well documented that reference to actual fact was not deemed necessary.
I’m coming to realize that I probably need to devote much more of my time to this kind of activity than I’m willing to alot if I’m to do so to the satisfaction of all involved. So its likely I won’t be around much.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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attaboy - 21 April 2012 06:25 AM

It seems to me most every aspect I talked about is so well documented that reference to actual fact was not deemed necessary.

Never a good assumption in a mixed crowd.

It may be that the folks you hang out with are all of the same opinion. That’s understandable, but on this forum we really do get all kinds, and we’re all on the lookout for ‘common knowledge’ that’s actually incorrect.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 06:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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dougsmith - 21 April 2012 06:29 AM
attaboy - 21 April 2012 06:25 AM

It seems to me most every aspect I talked about is so well documented that reference to actual fact was not deemed necessary.

Never a good assumption in a mixed crowd.

 

Maybe not, but I don’t think it should be my mission to have to prepare and educate people on here for a given topic I wish to present. This is what I have found here. People take adversarial positions who obviously just don’t get it. It could be just not knowing that, for whatever reason, they’re just not equipped to handle the topic. Or maybe they really don’t care, jump right in, and make a nuisance of themselves. There are forum topics I have no interest in and/or know little about. I wouldn’t even think about wasting my time, as well as those of persons engaged on that particular topic, by posting on that topic.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 07:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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dougsmith - 21 April 2012 06:29 AM
attaboy - 21 April 2012 06:25 AM

It seems to me most every aspect I talked about is so well documented that reference to actual fact was not deemed necessary.

Never a good assumption in a mixed crowd.

It may be that the folks you hang out with are all of the same opinion. That’s understandable, but on this forum we really do get all kinds, and we’re all on the lookout for ‘common knowledge’ that’s actually incorrect.

Where have I come in with ‘common knowledge’ that’s actually incorrect?

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Posted: 21 April 2012 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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attaboy - 21 April 2012 07:01 AM

Where have I come in with ‘common knowledge’ that’s actually incorrect?

I’m not saying you have. I’m saying that often times folks here don’t accept propositions based on the claim that they are ‘common knowledge’; simply because such claims are often incorrect.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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attaboy - 21 April 2012 06:57 AM

Maybe not, but I don’t think it should be my mission to have to prepare and educate people on here for a given topic I wish to present.

OK, but this is a forum for inquiry, not for simple claims-making. FYI.

Not meant as a criticism, simply as a statement of fact.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Yes, GdB, acid rain was and still remains a problem, just like is AIDS and other diseases, crime, poverty, pollution and a number of other things. But, once again, except for GW none of these seem to be a problem we can’t deal with. It’s a simple equation: the world population is rising and people are doing better each day. How people derive from this that overpopulation is a problem is simply beyond me.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 09:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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George - 21 April 2012 07:50 AM

How people derive from this that overpopulation is a problem is simply beyond me.

Bold by me. I think I don’t have to add something.

Probably you think science will find a solution for every problem. Or you think it is no problem that billions of people will die (as long as it are not your children?).

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Posted: 21 April 2012 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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People die all the time. What is important to our discussion here, though, is that less people die and suffer today when compared with the past. For the moment we seem to be on the right track.

If you want to pick a fight with me, GdB, at least try to stick to the topic. You can’t compare my children with the children in Africa just like you can’t compare my children with David Beckham’s children and say life is not getting any better because I can’t afford to build a $30,000 tree house for my kids like the Beckhams.

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Posted: 21 April 2012 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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George - 21 April 2012 10:45 AM

People die all the time. What is important to our discussion here, though, is that less people die and suffer today when compared with the past. For the moment we seem to be on the right track.

If you want to pick a fight with me, GdB, at least try to stick to the topic. You can’t compare my children with the children in Africa just like you can’t compare my children with David Beckham’s children and say life is not getting any better because I can’t afford to build a $30,000 tree house for my kids like the Beckhams.

Children in Africa are people of the world just like your children would be. Are you just on here to aggravate people or what?

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