True. I also think that it would be nice to have a clear standardized definition of “placebo effects” that precludes people from thinking of it as some sort of magical variable.
Thanks Tim for directing me to this thread that I’ve missed due to me hating anything Alternative Med.
I may have not made my point clearly in my post above.
I don’t think that skeptics are less likely to be susceptible to the placebo effect.
The sort of belief or faith we are talking about here is faith that the treatment
you are being given is efficacious.
Faith is still faith whether its belief in total voodoo or faith in something
thats just as useless but has a seemingly plausible scientific explanation.
I agree to that we need to know what we talk about. Definition of placebo.
One big problem for study this is the self reporting of the “Patient”.
I am very skeptical to that we are good at such even among us skeptics.
A lot of those that look at the Zeitgeist Movie write in forums them are
atheists and skeptics and still they believe in Truther conspiracy ideas
so it seems complicated indeed. The ironic thing is that Sam Harris who
surely see himself as very skeptical to organized religion he did in his
first book recommend people like Rupert Sheldrake and Dean Radin
and their ideas about Paranormal abilities among humans like Remote Viewing
and Morphological Fields so all of us are vulnerable to our own outlook?
Okay back to the theme. I tried to find out if I am good at being self hypnotized
because I see that as one indicator on if I can be receptive to the expectations
of Placebo. I where very lousy at self hypnosis due to my inability to concentrate
I am too ADD/ADHD to be able to stay focus for more than a few seconds.
But I seem to be receptive to persuations. Them being just short words like
Try this! ... I tested something they named Balancing the Body Energy Field
or similar name. Popular way back in 1970 or so. They manipulate the muscles
in arm or leg and that worked too well I get really scared how effective it was.
The muscles did what the Manipulator told them to. Feeling weak when tasting
sugar and strong when tasting Carrot juice. Haha I hated them for their skills
manipulating me against my conscious will.
So sure I trust that Placebo really do work if the person giving it is skilled enough
to perform something that the body get fooled by bypassing the conscious resistance to it.
Another good example from about 1985? I longed for a group to express my
naturalistic religious feelings and let me be persuade to see if I could cheat
pretending to be a Christian and pass as one among them and not get caught.
Heheh I had to run out of the Church because they where so good at setting up
the persuasion that my body showed that it would convert me against my will
if I did not run out of it and to distract it with looking at traffic and heading home.
The feeling of love for Jesus where so strong that I would ahve given in there
if I had not run out. The funny thing is that I had taken off my shoes so I had
to run having them in my hands. Must have looked really funny a guy running
down the pew with shoes in his hands instead on his feet
Anyway I am still atheist but my body remember how it felt and it tells me
that it want more of that experience again. A kind of dependence built up
despite only one instance of induced use. High on Jesus. And I am absolutely
against all drug use have never even used alco apart from an experiment
that lasted 10 minutes using 6CC alco on 300CC water? One drink?
The best experience in my whole life. The only time that I felt normal ever.
So I hope you guys get motivated that we do this together. Find good definition
of what goes on in Placebo.
1. Placebo is about expectation of an effective treatment for something one want a cure.
2. The one that give the Placebo need to give the impression them trust in the effectiveness.
3. If the Placebo treatment is a physical manipulation it needs to appear reasonable to the Patient?
Just my hasty set up I am a naive thinker but I am really interested in Placebo
after reading this.
“Not only did we make it absolutely clear
that these pills had no active ingredient
and were made from inert substances,
but we actually had ‘placebo’ printed on the bottle,”
Associate Professor Kaptchuk said in a statement.
“We told the patients they didn’t have to even believe in
the placebo effect – just take the pills.”
So we have two factors here. The willingness of the patient
to go along with the experiment. I come to think of Stanley Milgram
that such “authority effect” can creep in. It is a kind of Teacher/Student
relation or Doctor/Patient relation or even Parent/Child relation of trust?
Humans being hierarchical and good at “Follow John Games” where one
Go with the Flow and does not oppose but play along effect.
Then the expectations that one are doing break through science?
One don’t expect that it really will work but one are motivated to try
for to eliminate what one already find incredible and to everybody’s surprise
it worked so more research is needed and this was two years ago so ...
I mean one don’t have to be scientists to do such experiments.
I tested if it would help me to put trust in Amida Buddha and it worked
to a certain degree. I had to translate into naturalistic setting what they
had in myth words and I failed to go along with their culture but apart from that
it worked rather well. So to me all this is very interesting.