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1 in 5 teenagers will experiment with science.
Posted: 02 May 2012 04:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 02 May 2012 04:24 AM

This hits close to home :-(  First it was baking soda volcanoes, then model rockets. By the time my oldest was in middle school she was doing studies on smoking habits of high schoolers. I don’t know where we went wrong. Now she’s starting her PhD in immunology. I’m beginning to think she will never pull out of this downward spiral.  Sorry, Dad’s have to brag sometimes

Boy, do you have something to brag about! Congrats. Believe me, they don’t all turn out that way. It takes a lot of good parenting to instill the love of learning in a kid.


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Not at all. It’s genes.  cheese [pours gas on fire]

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Posted: 02 May 2012 04:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Not to worry, traveler. The fire has gone out.

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Posted: 02 May 2012 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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George - 02 May 2012 04:40 AM

Not to worry, traveler. The fire has gone out.

Well that’s no fun!  wink

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Posted: 02 May 2012 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Not at all. It’s genes.  [pours gas on fire]

Is this “make fun of curious George week”? Yep, genes are the mechanism,(engine if you will) but the gas to power it comes from Mom and Dad! grin


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Posted: 02 May 2012 07:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 02 May 2012 07:35 AM

Not at all. It’s genes.  [pours gas on fire]

Is this “make fun of curious George week”? Yep, genes are the mechanism,(engine if you will) but the gas to power it comes from Mom and Dad! grin

I have seen great parents produce less than ideal citizens and vice-versa. I honestly think the effect of parenting skills on the eventual outcomes is overrated. Yes, it obviously plays a role but genetics as well as other outside influences play as large or larger role, IMHO. Then there’s the whole free will thing…  cheese

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Posted: 02 May 2012 07:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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No, Jack, it’s not mom and dad. At least there isn’t evidence to support that assumption. It appears the “gas” to get the “engine” going is the engine itself (genes) and the peers. At least for awhile; the environmental influence (wherever it may com from) fades out with age.

Happy, traveler?  cool smirk

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Posted: 02 May 2012 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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No, Jack, it’s not mom and dad. At least there isn’t evidence to support that assumption. It appears the “gas” to get the “engine” going is the engine itself (genes) and the peers. At least for awhile; the environmental influence (wherever it may com from) fades out with age.

Sorry guys but 37 years in public education more than proves (to me at least) that good parenting skills ( or care giver as some are single parent or raised by other family members) give the kids the boost of self confidence they need to excel later in life. Yes, Free you’re partially right in your contention that kids can go off the rails and ruin their lives. My son’s a classic example. It took him 5 years and twice jailed to break free from his drug habit. He’s now a restaurant manager and drug free. Thirteen of his peers (former students of mine) are dead. And George, I guarantee you that without your support your children’s chances of financial success and mental stability will be impared. And yes I’ve also seen those kids from broken homes living in the most despicable conditions imaginable not only succeed but excel, but they were few and far between. I really don’t like taking a conservative stance here but in this case the evidence has been borne out in my profession.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/statistics/wellbeing.cfm

This site is a broad overview including stats and charts. Focus on education.

Herre’s another site and there are many more out there to prove my contention.

http://www.netc.org/focus/challenges/school.php

 

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Posted: 02 May 2012 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Jack, forgive me for not wanting to engage in another nurture/nature debate, but I have done it a way too many times on this forum already. If you’re interested to find out why I disagree that parents shape their kids’ personalities, read Judith Rich Harris’s The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way They Do.

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Posted: 02 May 2012 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thanks George, I’ll do it. I’m curious too!


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Posted: 02 May 2012 09:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I also don’t want this to get started again, however, I have to agree with George.  If we recognize that genetics contribute to very bright children, then we have to assume that the parents also have those genes.  If that’s the case their genetics would almost certainly contribute greatly to their parenting skills.  As such, it’s first and second order genetics that are involved.

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Posted: 02 May 2012 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I also don’t want this to get started again, however, I have to agree with George.  If we recognize that genetics contribute to very bright children, then we have to assume that the parents also have those genes.  If that’s the case their genetics would almost certainly contribute greatly to their parenting skills.  As such, it’s first and second order genetics that are involved

I’ll concede this point to a degree but to me it just smacks of Eugenics. THose with the best genes have the best chance at life so why not alter them and create a more perfect human? I guess I’m too much of an egalitarian to buy into the idea that genes make the man. More, after I read the book George.


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Posted: 02 May 2012 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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I don’t understand, Jack. Why would you want to alter good genes? The only thing people with good genes need (and want) to do is not mix their genes with bad genes—which is precisely one of the reasons why tuition at Harvard will always be more expensive than that of the University at Buffalo.

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Posted: 02 May 2012 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Ouch! I’ll bet the people at the University of Buffalo will take umbrage at that remark! I’m not advocating mixing genes as you say but how are you going to stop your kids from making what they believe to be THEIR choice for a mate, or anyone elses kids for that matter. Would you stop the marriage because the person came from the “wrong side of the tracks”?  Because as you say, parenting has nothing to do with it; their choice will be determined by genetics. Will their genes guide them in the direction of a mate? What if their peer group not only allowed this person into the group but encouraged it? I don’t think that we can rule out emotional attachments and hormones in this case. And they’re many people with high IQs who couldn’t get into Harvard because they couldn’t afford the tuition. So they had to opt for a Oh no, state university like Paul Burk, grad of Ohio State U. and former provost of Harvard ( I guess he got in anyway!), or Larry Sanger, co-founder of WIKI, or George Aiken of my alma Mater UK, scientist who worked ion the Manhattan Project, CFI’s Joe Nickell from a small Appalachian town in Ky., or William Lipscomb who won the Nobel Prize in chemistry. I think that much of it is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration to quote a guy who never even went to college!


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Posted: 02 May 2012 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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If you get to read the Rich Harris’s book, Jack, you’ll find out she has a few advices on how we can influence the future of our kids. There is nothing I can do at this point to alter their genes (there may be such an opportunity in the future) but if Harris is right and their peers have a lot to do with how they get socialized, then perhaps I can help them to be surrounded by the people of my choice. I can decide where we live and what school they go to and I can make sure their teeth look as perfect as possible. None of this will obviously guarantee that they will choose the “right” friends (or that they will be accepted by their peers) but it’s worth the try.

In the meantime, I’ll live under the illusion that I am the Master Builder of their future character, encourage them to read Charles Dickens instead of the Hunger Games and even feel proud of their successes. Why not? Just like I will always feel that I have a free will, that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, I can also enjoy the feeling of my parenting techniques making a difference, even though, deep down I may be aware that all that is just an illusion.

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Posted: 02 May 2012 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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George - 02 May 2012 10:43 AM

I don’t understand, Jack. Why would you want to alter good genes? The only thing people with good genes need (and want) to do is not mix their genes with bad genes—which is precisely one of the reasons why tuition at Harvard will always be more expensive than that of the University at Buffalo.

  I want to hear Harvard, or any other Ivy league school admit that though; actually, if they did, most people would still want to go there.

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