3 of 10
3
Why did God create the Earth and humanity in the first place?
Posted: 15 June 2012 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  220
Joined  2011-10-01

I’m really struggling with this one. Can anybody here make sense of this idea of a being that is good, kind, loving etc, and yet at the same time wants or needs or demands to be praised and thanked all the time? Perhaps human beings have a natural desire to worship and are actually happier when they do so, and so the Christian could say that God only wants us to worship Him for our own good or something like that. But you then still have the problem that He created us with this desire to worship in the first place. It’s a bit of a mess.

 Signature 

“Life is shit, but the graphics is good”

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2012 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4860
Joined  2007-10-05

Anyone who can make sense of that concept will be the first to do so.

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 June 2012 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3330
Joined  2011-11-04
Dom1978 - 15 June 2012 06:28 PM

I’m really struggling with this one. Can anybody here make sense of this idea of a being that is good, kind, loving etc, and yet at the same time wants or needs or demands to be praised and thanked all the time? Perhaps human beings have a natural desire to worship and are actually happier when they do so, and so the Christian could say that God only wants us to worship Him for our own good or something like that. But you then still have the problem that He created us with this desire to worship in the first place. It’s a bit of a mess.

I think the most likely answer to that is that man created god in his own image… and our wants and needs aren’t always rational.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 June 2012 06:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

God created man because she has a sick sense of humour.

(It’s no sillier then any other theology and I like it!)

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2012 02:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6162
Joined  2009-02-26
psikeyhackr - 11 May 2012 07:41 AM
Maswah - 09 May 2012 08:59 PM

Does the bible give any indication of WHY God felt the need to create the universe, the Earth, humanity, etc.? If not, does anyone know of an answer that has any semblance of logic?

Read The Ultimate Frontier by Eklal Kueshana

It may not be true but it is a weird trip. 

The bottom line is that it is a form of reproduction.  We are supposed to ultimately rise to God’s level.  LOL

Why are human’s called the children of God?  What are children supposed to do?

psik


Children of God indeed. We are following in his footsteps as described in the OT.

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  65
Joined  2012-07-04

Dom1978 seems closest to the answer. Why is a god who wants to love so illogical? Is love or want incompatible with being a righteous or all powerful god?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6162
Joined  2009-02-26
student - 04 July 2012 07:24 AM

Dom1978 seems closest to the answer. Why is a god who wants to love so illogical? Is love or want incompatible with being a righteous or all powerful god?

If God wanted to be loved, he doesn’t make it easy does he? Perhaps a little like “spare the rod, spoil the child” kinda thing?

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

Why is a god who wants to love so illogical? Is love or want incompatible with being a righteous or all powerful god?

The picture of God presented in the Abrahamic religions is a genocidal, narcissitic, and anti social monster. If such a being exists, and said being wants to be loved, he’s going about it the wrong way.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6162
Joined  2009-02-26
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 04 July 2012 01:06 PM

Why is a god who wants to love so illogical? Is love or want incompatible with being a righteous or all powerful god?

The picture of God presented in the Abrahamic religions is a genocidal, narcissitic, and anti social monster. If such a being exists, and said being wants to be loved, he’s going about it the wrong way.

IMO, if there is a Force (by whatever name), it is both a creative and destructive force and does not “care” about morality or love. Why is this simple demonstrable fact so hard to accept? There is only conversion from one state to another. The creation of one state is the destruction of another state, every single singular instant in time.

[ Edited: 04 July 2012 01:27 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  65
Joined  2012-07-04

Seems I was not very clear. The idea of god wanting to BE LOVED is irrelevant for this question. More explicitly, is a god who wants to LOVE OTHERS or a god who has wants incompatible with being a righteous or all powerful god?

Does finding god hard to love or finding a picture of god as not loving assume that god owes us something? What is it that god owes us? Is god obligated not to convert us back to dust?

Does a god who create also have the right to destroy? If a god has a right to destroy and chooses not to destroy, is that a loving god?

[ Edited: 04 July 2012 01:52 PM by student ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4400
Joined  2010-08-15
Dom1978 - 15 June 2012 06:28 PM

I’m really struggling with this one. Can anybody here make sense of this idea of a being that is good, kind, loving etc, and yet at the same time wants or needs or demands to be praised and thanked all the time? Perhaps human beings have a natural desire to worship and are actually happier when they do so, and so the Christian could say that God only wants us to worship Him for our own good or something like that. But you then still have the problem that He created us with this desire to worship in the first place. It’s a bit of a mess.

DarronS - 15 June 2012 06:38 PM

Anyone who can make sense of that concept will be the first to do so.

you nailed that one.

 Signature 

We need each other, to keep ourselves honest

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 July 2012 05:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

Student, who says God or any other gods even exist? We tend NOT to make that assumption here.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 July 2012 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1191
Joined  2011-08-01
student - 04 July 2012 01:47 PM

Does finding god hard to love or finding a picture of god as not loving assume that god owes us something? What is it that god owes us? Is god obligated not to convert us back to dust?

I actually find this line of inquiry interesting, and have reflected upon it. The apostle Paul, for one, argued strongly that god (the “potter”) owes nothing to the clay (that would be us). Most scripture agrees with this. The idea seems to be that since god is so vastly more powerful and wise than we, we have no right to question anything god does nor do we have any rights at all as creatures who owe their existence to his pleasure.

I strongly disagree—fact, I think the bible has it completely backwards. A comparatively weak creature does have a reasonable expectation of basic rights from its creator. I offer a useful analogy. Very few people would argue that it is ethical to “create” pets, that is to intentionally breed them, only to leave them to suffer or die of neglect. You could even extend the analogy (uncomfortably) to children. To create (or allow to come into existence) any living, sentient being capable of suffering, with no intention of doing everything in one’s power to avoid exposing the being to suffering, is extremely unethical.

So my answer to the question of what does [the hypothetical god] owe humanity is that he/she/it owes us an explanation as to why it created us and placed us in a world full of suffering and why he/she/it intends to allow the vast majority of us to be tormented for “eternity” (whatever that means).

The christian god is basically a deadbeat dad.

 Signature 

Free in Kentucky
—Humanist
“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 July 2012 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  65
Joined  2012-07-04

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon:

You are correct. The only authoritative explicit statement of God’s existence is by God. Kind of like self authenticating evidence. Assuming God does not exist makes any authoritative statement of God’s existence only an assumption to accept or reject.

FreeInKy:

Your answer is this blog’s title question with the additional owed explanation why God intends to punish those who reject God. At this point I can not agree nor say you are wrong. At this time, the only analogy coming to mind is a child asking a parent why you had me and why you punish the children who reject you. Hopefully you will find plenty of problems with this analogy.

Thank you Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon and FreeInKy for your responses.

student

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 July 2012 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6162
Joined  2009-02-26
student - 05 July 2012 08:20 AM

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon:

You are correct. The only authoritative explicit statement of God’s existence is by God. Kind of like self authenticating evidence. Assuming God does not exist makes any authoritative statement of God’s existence only an assumption to accept or reject.

This is a perfect example of a strawman argument. Why should we make any assumption of the Supernatural?
The argument of a biblical God being self evident is false. The bible is not an authoritative instrument as science has clearly shown.
Again, if there is a creative force it has no human qualities (except in humans). It just is.

I call this force Potential. This assumption can be defended on both scientific and philosophical grounds, because it is a natural quality and property of everything.

FreeInKy:

Your answer is this blog’s title question with the additional owed explanation why God intends to punish those who reject God. At this point I can not agree nor say you are wrong. At this time, the only analogy coming to mind is a child asking a parent why you had me and why you punish the children who reject you. Hopefully you will find plenty of problems with this analogy.
student

Another false argument, IMO.
a) God seems to punish across the board. There simply is no pleasing God.
b) Procreation (natural phenomena) is a parental right. “To each his own”. This natural urge to procreate is evident regardless of species or belief in a higher power. Evolution by natural selection is the only acceptable and self evident explanation.

Only adoration of Life itself brings reward (while alive). The rest is delusion and a clever ad campaign.

Consider this,
Procreation function (1 + 1) = 2 (parents),  2 + 1 = 3 (family),  3 - (1 + 1) = 1 (offspring).

Therefore God ?????

[ Edited: 05 July 2012 04:59 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 10
3