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Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
Posted: 10 May 2012 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.

Sin, by it’s very nature must have a victim. Without a victim, there is no sin.

The one sinned against has the first right of forgiveness.

If Jesus usurps that right then I think it would be unjust.

Closure is being denied the victim thus victimizing is twofold.

Jesus would not condone such a thing.

Secular law now demands a victim assessment report before sentence is given.

To think that Jesus would ignore this requirement is unthinkable.

This means that, “Why have you forsaken me? “, is answered by God with; because what you do is immoral. You deny the victim her or his rights. It is also unjust to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. In fact, that notion is insane.

In the scenario shown here the victim is ignored thus showing the flaw in the judge’s ruling, if he accepts substitutionary atonement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related
Regards
DL

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Posted: 10 May 2012 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Totally agree with you here. The bible says that only god can forgive, but I believe that only a victim has the right to forgive anyone. And I do not believe that everyone is deserving of forgiveness.

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Posted: 10 May 2012 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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FreeInKy - 10 May 2012 07:51 AM

Totally agree with you here. The bible says that only god can forgive, but I believe that only a victim has the right to forgive anyone. And I do not believe that everyone is deserving of forgiveness.

Thanks for this. Christians have not agreed so far. Then again, they have not offered reasons, just dogma and anger.
That tells me that I have not done too badly on an O P.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 10 May 2012 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I also agree.  And I think its sort of wimpy of the perpetrator to accept forgiveness.  For me the only remedy is restitution, either to the victim or to society in general.  For example, if I cut someone off in traffic, even if by accident, I’ll drive hyper-courteously until I feel I’ve repaid for my error. 

This is one reason why I feel non-theists are far more ethical and moral than theists.

Occam

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Posted: 10 May 2012 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Occam. - 10 May 2012 10:22 AM

...  For me the only remedy is restitution, either to the victim or to society in general.  For example, if I cut someone off in traffic, even if by accident, I’ll drive hyper-courteously until I feel I’ve repaid for my error… 

Occam

You are a credit to your species.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 10 May 2012 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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TimB - 10 May 2012 11:33 AM
Occam. - 10 May 2012 10:22 AM

...  For me the only remedy is restitution, either to the victim or to society in general.  For example, if I cut someone off in traffic, even if by accident, I’ll drive hyper-courteously until I feel I’ve repaid for my error… 

Occam

You are a credit to your species.

Yeah, but we’re still trying to figure out to which species Occam belongs.  LOL

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“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

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Posted: 10 May 2012 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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FreeInKy - 10 May 2012 12:25 PM
TimB - 10 May 2012 11:33 AM
Occam. - 10 May 2012 10:22 AM

...  For me the only remedy is restitution, either to the victim or to society in general.  For example, if I cut someone off in traffic, even if by accident, I’ll drive hyper-courteously until I feel I’ve repaid for my error… 

Occam

You are a credit to your species.

Yeah, but we’re still trying to figure out to which species Occam belongs.  LOL

No doubt it is: homo sapius maximus

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 10 May 2012 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Yeah, I waited many years for some advanced species female aliens to show up for me to mate with.  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 10 May 2012 06:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Occam. - 10 May 2012 05:31 PM

Yeah, I waited many years for some advanced species female aliens to show up for me to mate with.  LOL

Occam

Too late now.  LOL

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Posted: 10 May 2012 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Greatest I am - 10 May 2012 07:47 AM

Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.

Sin, by it’s very nature must have a victim. Without a victim, there is no sin.

The one sinned against has the first right of forgiveness.

If Jesus usurps that right then I think it would be unjust.

Closure is being denied the victim thus victimizing is twofold.

Jesus would not condone such a thing.

Secular law now demands a victim assessment report before sentence is given.

To think that Jesus would ignore this requirement is unthinkable.

This means that, “Why have you forsaken me? “, is answered by God with; because what you do is immoral. You deny the victim her or his rights. It is also unjust to punish the innocent instead of the guilty. In fact, that notion is insane.

In the scenario shown here the victim is ignored thus showing the flaw in the judge’s ruling, if he accepts substitutionary atonement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related
Regards
DL

  Basically true.  It depends on what the victim feels though; not all victims are created equal.

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Posted: 11 May 2012 05:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Occam. - 10 May 2012 05:31 PM

Yeah, I waited many years for some advanced species female aliens to show up for me to mate with.  LOL

Like these? I always thought they were kinda hot…

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyufiEwDSLZ4RHiIuA2kx9lMLqQWO13gcM7LPXU26Noba0wyfhXBXt2LG

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“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

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Posted: 11 May 2012 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Occam. - 10 May 2012 10:22 AM

I also agree.  And I think its sort of wimpy of the perpetrator to accept forgiveness.  For me the only remedy is restitution, either to the victim or to society in general.  For example, if I cut someone off in traffic, even if by accident, I’ll drive hyper-courteously until I feel I’ve repaid for my error. 

This is one reason why I feel non-theists are far more ethical and moral than theists.

Occam

On this we can agree.

Let me give them a caveat. Most so called theist do not believe their dogma and are only in it for tradition and peer pressure.
This is shown by any mapping of various belief systems as they are more geographically placed than religiously placed.

Thank God, so to speak, or the world is a way dumber place than what I believe it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY

Regards
DL

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Posted: 11 May 2012 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Occam. - 10 May 2012 05:31 PM

Yeah, I waited many years for some advanced species female aliens to show up for me to mate with.  LOL

Occam

http://imgur.com/3C7G1

Regards
DL

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Posted: 11 May 2012 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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FreeInKy - 11 May 2012 05:27 AM
Occam. - 10 May 2012 05:31 PM

Yeah, I waited many years for some advanced species female aliens to show up for me to mate with.  LOL

Like these? I always thought they were kinda hot…

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFyufiEwDSLZ4RHiIuA2kx9lMLqQWO13gcM7LPXU26Noba0wyfhXBXt2LG

I like mine. Yours is ugly. LOL.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 11 May 2012 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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mid atlantic - 10 May 2012 07:57 PM

[

Basically true.  It depends on what the victim feels though; not all victims are created equal.

I agree. I think a good judge would need to consider that and adjust his sentence accordingly with equalization in mind.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 11 May 2012 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Nah, not Klingons.  Possibly the empath being transported to another world by the Enterprise.  She was played by Famke Jansenn. smile

Occam

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