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Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.
Posted: 05 July 2012 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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FreeInKy - 05 July 2012 07:15 AM

I always had a soft spot in my heart for her because, well she’s smokin’ hot, but also because Marina Sirtis is Greek, like my father’s family.

I find her—and Greek and other Mediterranean women in general—a little too masculine.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Our differences in views are fascinating.  I went to dinner at an Indian restaurant with a Pakistani guy who recently got divorced and was looking for a girlfriend.  I asked a question about a meat entre of the waitress, and she said she didn’t know since she was a vegetarian.  The young woman was gorgeous.  When she walked away, I asked my friend what he thought about her.  “Eh, she’s nothing special.”  He was Moslem, and she, obviously, Indian.  I don’t know if that was the determinant, but it was really strange to me that he couldn’t see her as beautiful.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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That’s one of the wonderful things about being human. We all see people differently. George looks at a woman and sees masculinity while I see a beautiful feminism. You see a gorgeous woman where your friend sees “meh”. I think there is someone for everyone.

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“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

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Posted: 05 July 2012 03:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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True.  Some times I’ll see a very attractive woman who also demonstrates high intelligence, then I look at and listen to her husband or boyfriend and think, “Geez, what the hell hidden characteristics must someone as clutzy and homely as him have?”

Of course, it may that the woman has some hidden psychological quirk that he fits.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Well, it depends how you look at it. There is nothing wrong with finding any women (or even a man—if you’re gay) attractive. It depends what one is after. But it is also possible that two men are interested in the same thing (whatever that can be: healthy children, good-looking children, smart children, big family, happy marriage, etc.) and happen to have different tastes, one of which will turn up to be more optimal than the other in achieving a specific goal(s).

It is obviously also very probable that we all have different “evolutionary strategies” and try to find a match, that may differ to a great degree from a person to person. FreeInKy may come from ancestors who do well (in evolutionary terms) when they mate with women who may be a little more masculine than my ancestors who may prefer less masculine women. Or we may both have a “bad taste” and pay for it later (again, in evolutionary terms).

As Dobzhansky said, “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.” And we are biology—even our reasons for why we prefer certain women.

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Posted: 05 July 2012 10:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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What if one is after self destruction?  Is that possible from an evolutionary standpoint?

We all know people who constantly end up with bad mates, which often leads to bad offspring, who can only get with other bad mates, and on and on.

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Posted: 06 July 2012 08:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Greatest I am:

You said July 4th (with exceptions) no victim no crime. Where is the victim in manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance, prostitution, ex felon in possession of firearms, prohibited assisted suicide, money laundering, possessing obscenity, consensual sodomy, prohibited nudity, driving while intoxicated, employing the undocumented, gambling, driving over the speed limit, unlicensed possession of a concealed handgun, conspiracy to commit a crime, and maybe even statutory rape? Who is the victim in “victimless” crimes?

You ask about Roe versus Wade. Roe wanted an abortion. Wade was the District Attorney. Then, the District Attorney could consider criminal prosecution for abortion. Roe sued Wade for constitutional privacy rights. Roe versus Wade was a civil case, not criminal.

You said that you can not be convicted twice for the same crime. If one killing happens in two over lapping jurisdictions, what stops the same killing from becoming two separate crimes with one crime each in the two independent jurisdictions?

Interesting insight on Jew’s view of Eden. Yes, much money has been traded over the parishioner, church, and god roles and relations.

You said punishment should have a purpose. Is disobedience alone a deficient purpose for punishment?

[ Edited: 06 July 2012 08:46 AM by student ]
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Posted: 06 July 2012 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Roe versus Wade was a civil case, not criminal.

Not exactly, Student. The case which ultimately made it’s way to the Supreme Court was civil, but the issue was that at the time, abortions were a criminal offence when from a Constitutional perspective, such matters were none of the state’s business.

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Posted: 06 July 2012 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon:

Thank you for jumping in on this dual jurisdiction or who is the victim question.

You are correct. Roe v. Wade was a civil case with an eye on criminal abortion prosecution.

Assuming Wade (as DA) prosecuted Roe for abortion, who was the victim?

student

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Posted: 06 July 2012 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Assuming Wade (as DA) prosecuted Roe for abortion, who was the victim?

In the eyes of the state, it would be the unborn child.

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Posted: 07 July 2012 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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student - 06 July 2012 08:01 AM

Greatest I am:

You said July 4th (with exceptions) no victim no crime. Where is the victim in manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance,

Happily high somewhere and not thinking himself as a victim at all.
Where do you see a victim?

prostitution,

Happily sexually sated somewhere.
Where do you see a victim?

ex felon in possession of firearms,

Has he paid his debt to society? If so then he should not be restricted.
If part of that debt is to not possess a firearm then the state is the victim and he should be subject to whatever the law demands.

prohibited assisted suicide,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAiWwjHvid0

Is this man guilty of a crime?
I do not think so.
Do you?

money laundering, possessing obscenity, consensual sodomy, prohibited nudity, driving while intoxicated, employing the undocumented, gambling, driving over the speed limit, unlicensed possession of a concealed handgun, conspiracy to commit a crime, and maybe even statutory rape? Who is the victim in “victimless” crimes?

You ask about Roe versus Wade. Roe wanted an abortion. Wade was the District Attorney. Then, the District Attorney could consider criminal prosecution for abortion. Roe sued Wade for constitutional privacy rights. Roe versus Wade was a civil case, not criminal.

You said that you can not be convicted twice for the same crime. If one killing happens in two over lapping jurisdictions, what stops the same killing from becoming two separate crimes with one crime each in the two independent jurisdictions?

Interesting insight on Jew’s view of Eden. Yes, much money has been traded over the parishioner, church, and god roles and relations.

You said punishment should have a purpose. Is disobedience alone a deficient purpose for punishment?

I am fairly liberal in my thinking and if we can chat at all on the above victimless crimes then I will deal with all your other points above.

As to your last on A & E and disobeying a command; you should realize that the knowledge of good and evil that was denied them by command is basically the knowledge of damned near everything as most things are subject to good and evil. To disobey such a command is right and just as no one should obey a command to stay as dumb as a cow and not develop a moral sense.


The Bible begins by saying that all the trouble in the world was caused by Adam and Eve eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was the only thing God denied them. But then the rest of the entire Bible exhorts people to do everything in their power to gain knowledge of good and evil! It exalts wisdom and knowledge as one of the highest goals every person should strive for.
Proverbs 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel: 2 To know wisdom and instruction, To discern the sayings of understanding, 3 To receive instruction in wise behavior, Righteousness, justice and equity; 4 To give prudence to the naive, To the youth knowledge and discretion, 5 A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel.
Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding. 7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, 8 Guarding the paths of justice, And He preserves the way of His godly ones. 9 Then you will discern righteousness and justice And equity and every good course. 10 For wisdom will enter your heart, And knowledge will be pleasant to your soul; 11 Discretion will guard you, Understanding will watch over you,
Proverbs 8:7 “For my mouth will utter truth; And wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 “All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them. 9 “They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. 10 “Take my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choicest gold. 11 “For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things can not compare with her. 12 “I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And I find knowledge and discretion.
The story of the fall looks very strange in this context:
Genesis 3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
So we have a very strange contradiction at the very inception of the entire Biblical narrative. That which was forbidden and which caused all the problems in the world becomes the very highest of values!
And I had another thought just yesterday morning. The Tree of Knowledge actually looks not like it teaches morality, but that it teaches RELIGIOUS DOGMA. If the Garden is a symbol of the soul, there are two trees available. The Tree of Knowledge is the Tree of Dogma that kills the soul. The Tree of Life is authentic Gnosis of Reality.

“Is becoming like God good or evil?”
FMPOV. It is the highest good, of course. We are commanded to be like God.
“If evil, please explain what is evil about developing a moral sense and following scriptures that tell us to be as Gods.”
FMPOV.  It cannot be evil to know good and evil. The entire OT (after the mythological chapters which are never referenced again) praises the virtue of possessing knowledge of good and evil. What a strange book the Bible becomes when we open our eyes to see what it really says!

http://www.biblewheel.com/content.php?24-The-Love-of-Knowledge-A-Fundamental-Contradiction-in-the-Heart-of-the-Bible

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DL

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Posted: 07 July 2012 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon:

You said that in a Roe criminal prosecution, Texas would see an unborn child victim. If Texas is not also a victim, how does Texas have standing to prosecute this case and controversy?

If the DA had criminally prosecuted Roe, would that case be (Deceased) Unborn Child v. Roe? My money is on State of Texas v. Roe. Which is your money on?

Greatest I am:

Out of laziness, I am generalizing by consolidation. You asked where do I see the victim in the “victimless” crimes. The state sees the state as the victim in these “victimless” crime prosecutions.

No need to deal with all the points on “victimless” crimes. You said the drug dealing victim is [h]appily high somewhere and not thinking himself as a victim at all. The state would not only agree with you, the state would probably apply your answer to all “victimless” crime prosecutions. What victim remains to justify the state’s criminal prosecution in these “victimless” crimes?

You asked if the man was guilty of a crime for shooting the woman at the women’s direction. Though I may doubt the man’s guilt, seems the state was moving forward to criminally prosecute the man. Will this criminal prosecution be Deceased Woman v. Shooter or State v. Shooter?

Your comments on developing a moral sense and the Bible’s view on wisdom are interesting.

You said becoming like God is obviously the highest good. With some tweaking, the Mormons would probably agree. My only concern is when becoming like God turns into usurping God. Arguably, what I think is irrelevant.

You said the Bible says strange things. No arguments from me. Some pastors say the Bible turns things upside down.

If I have generalized too much or left something out, please feel free to point out.

Again, thank you for your response.

student

[ Edited: 07 July 2012 08:30 PM by student ]
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Posted: 07 July 2012 10:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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You said that in a Roe criminal prosecution, Texas would see an unborn child victim. If Texas is not also a victim, how does Texas have standing to prosecute this case and controversy?

I never mentioned Texas now, did I?

In any event, if abortion is on the books in that state as a crime then the state as the representative of the people would have the standing to prosecute if it happened within their legal jurisdiction, the same as they would if any other criminal offence happened within their jurisdiction. There need not be a “victim” as the simple fact that whatever happened was a criminal offence would be sufficient.

If the DA had criminally prosecuted Roe, would that case be (Deceased) Unborn Child v. Roe? My money is on State of Texas v. Roe. Which is your money on?

The latter.

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Posted: 08 July 2012 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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student - 07 July 2012 08:05 PM

. Arguably, what I think is irrelevant.

So why post at all?

Oh. And this sample of good Canadian thinking of how all religions were created.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/59507/detail/

Regards
DL

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Posted: 08 July 2012 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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GIA, that was a snide, silly, and unjustified question as was your comment that followed.  While some of us have felt the same way about many of your posts, we haven’t attacked them like that, especially when you were new and just feeling your way as Student is.

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