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The one envelope problem
Posted: 21 May 2012 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]
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If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink

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Posted: 21 May 2012 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 08:06 AM

If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink

Zenmaster asks: who does the opening?

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GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

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Posted: 21 May 2012 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 08:06 AM

If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink

If it does contain something, the trees and plants in the forest, the birds and the bees, the bears and the other wild animals, the ants and the worms, the bacteria, viruses and fungi are there to see, touch/feel, devour, build nests or transform the contents and the envelope as well even though presumably no humans, especially philosophers, are around to see and argue ad infinitum.  LOL

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Posted: 21 May 2012 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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GdB - 21 May 2012 08:48 AM
FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 08:06 AM

If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink

Zenmaster asks: who does the opening?

Perhaps it opened itself?  cheese

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“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

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Posted: 21 May 2012 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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kkwan - 21 May 2012 08:51 AM
FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 08:06 AM

If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink

If it does contain something, the trees and plants in the forest, the birds and the bees, the bears and the other wild animals, the ants and the worms, the bacteria, viruses and fungi are there to see, touch/feel, devour, build nests or transform the contents and the envelope as well even though presumably no humans, especially philosophers, are around to see and argue ad infinitum.  LOL

Yes, especially philosophers!  LOL

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Posted: 21 May 2012 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 09:03 AM

Perhaps it opened itself?  cheese

Who knows?

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Posted: 21 May 2012 01:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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FreeInKy - 21 May 2012 08:06 AM

If an envelope is opened in the forest, and no one is there to see the contents, does it contain anything?  tongue wink


It contains something and nothing, until someone observes that it is one or the other.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 21 May 2012 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Ah, Schrödinger’s envelope.  smile

Occam

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Posted: 21 May 2012 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Yes, you let the cat out of the envelope.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 21 May 2012 06:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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TimB - 21 May 2012 03:39 PM

Yes, you let the cat out of the envelope.

That is the problem…..cats!!!.....not the envelope. It is only the container for cats.

Opening the envelope is akin to opening Pandora’s Box.

Don’t trust cats. They are supposed to have 9 lives, not one.

Cats are more complex than chameleons. They are far too intelligent for their own good.

Curiosity is one of their traits, and curiosity kills them. But, they have 9 lives, so they are virtually immortal.

They are feline monsters, attacking from all the 4 dimensions of space-time.

Resistance is futile.  gulp

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Posted: 22 May 2012 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Cats! Since this is just a silly thread anyway, and since I am the OP, I guess I can further derail it with a clear conscience.  cheese

The Dog’s Diary

  8:00 am - Dog food! My favorite thing!
  9:30 am - A car ride! My favorite thing!
  9:40 am - A walk in the park! My favorite thing!
10:30 am - Got rubbed and petted! My favorite thing!
12:00 pm - Milk bones! My favorite thing!
  1:00 pm - Played in the yard! My favorite thing!
  3:00 pm - Wagged my tail! My favorite thing!
  5:00 pm - Dinner! My favorite thing!
  7:00 pm - Got to play ball! My favorite thing!
  8:00 pm - Wow! Watched TV with the people! My favorite thing!
11:00 pm - Sleeping on the bed! My favorite thing!

The Cat’s Diary

Day 983 of My Captivity

My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while the other inmates and I are fed hash or some sort of dry nuggets. Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength.

The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape. In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the carpet. Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates my capabilities. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a “good little hunter” I am. Bastards!

There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. However, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to the power of “allergies.” I must learn what this means, and how to use it to my advantage.

Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow, but at the top of the stairs.

I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches. The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released, and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded. The bird must be an informant. I observe him communicate with the guards regularly. I am certain that he reports my every move. My captors have arranged protective custody for him in an elevated cell, so he is safe. For now ...

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Posted: 22 May 2012 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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FreeInKy - 22 May 2012 04:42 AM

Cats! Since this is just a silly thread anyway, and since I am the OP, I guess I can further derail it with a clear conscience.

Zenmaster says: No way, no derailing.

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Posted: 22 May 2012 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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GdB - 22 May 2012 05:03 AM
FreeInKy - 22 May 2012 04:42 AM

Cats! Since this is just a silly thread anyway, and since I am the OP, I guess I can further derail it with a clear conscience. .

 

Zenmaster says: No way, no derailing..

 


Speaking of Zen masters and cats:

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=goodsearch-yhsif&va=zen+master+cats

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 22 May 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Ha Ha! Those are great, Tim. This is my favorite:

6a00d8341c73fe53ef00e553bec9e08833-800wi

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Free in Kentucky
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Posted: 22 May 2012 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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GdB - 22 May 2012 05:03 AM

Zenmaster says: No way, no derailing.

Zen student say: Only when one leaves the rails can one truly find enlightenment.

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Posted: 22 May 2012 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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FreeInKy - 22 May 2012 04:42 AM

Cats! Since this is just a silly thread anyway, and since I am the OP, I guess I can further derail it with a clear conscience.  cheese

Wow! The power of imagination. Cats and dogs. Charming animals with diametric personalities which humans keep as pets.

New theory. Humpty Dumpty was in the envelope. 

From the wiki on Humpty Dumpty

“I don’t know what you mean by ‘glory,’ ” Alice said.
  Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. “Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant ‘there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!’ ”
  “But ‘glory’ doesn’t mean ‘a nice knock-down argument’,” Alice objected.
  “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
  “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

QED?  tongue laugh

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