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White babies outnumbered?
Posted: 28 May 2012 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Not true, George.  Darwin was before the concepts of the laws of thermodynamics and entropy, which, by the way, is only a more precise way of defining the tendency toward randomness.  And, that certainly describes the transfer of genes from the adult to the progeny.

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Posted: 28 May 2012 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Not true what, Occam? That genes don’t mix? As more people get together in one place, the more diverse they become—viz. Africa, for example. If evolution worked under the second law of thermodynamics, all people in Africa would by now look like identical twins. The more people, the more different pressures, and more diversity and the speeding up of evolution.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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The “not true” was in reference to

your mentioning entropy is completely irrelevant here. Even Darwin already knew that and he didn’t even know that genes existed.

Entropy doesn’t suggest uniformity, but rather, randomness. 

If evolution worked under the second law of thermodynamics, all people in Africa would by now look like identical twins.

This indicates you don’t really understand how the Second Law works.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 11:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Well then, enlighten me, Occam. grin What does entropy have to do with gene selection or how the genes propagate?

Darwin knew that we were not a mixture of our parents in the same way when one mixes black and white paint and gets gray. He struggled with it, but it took Mendel to figure it out. I really don’t understand what you’re talking about…

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Posted: 29 May 2012 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Mriana - 28 May 2012 01:51 PM

Ever since I saw that, I wonder where my family sits in the asinine idea, given that I’m white and 1/8 American Indian and my sons are part white, part black, and part American Indian.  Truth is, I don’t think anyone is purely one thing or the other and this idea that white are becoming a minority is all BS.

In actuality, it seems to me that, pure races, of any kind, are becoming the minority.

Although in 10,000 years, when humans may have become one single medley of the former races, I am confident that we will have found other silly, but effective, ways to divide ourselves and to discriminate poorly amongst one another.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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TimB - 29 May 2012 01:35 PM

Although in 10,000 years, when humans may have become one single medley of the former races

What do you mean? Look at all the different peoples of the Americas. They were popping up like mushrooms after the rain during the past thousands of years. And if you are referring to the few mullatoes for example, you must surely be aware of the fact that the majority of the people within these two races have not mixed. Even if a larger number of individuals from two different races did mix (like the Spaniards and the Indians, for example), it only adds to the diversity of humans.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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The past thousands of years are likely fundamentally different than the next thousands of years, as any place on Earth is becoming increasingly accessable by members of any race.  I see no reason that this trend will subside. As humans of all races continue to interbreed (as they increasingly have) it is reasonable to expect that there will be less and less racial distinction over time, until inevitably, there is one racial mixture.  It could take more or less than ten thousand years, but neither of us will be around to collect on a bet that it will or won’t happen.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 04:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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George, what one sees and what is the case are often different.  Mixing black and white paint appears to make gray, however, each of the particles of carbon in the black and titanium dioxide in the white remain unchanged.  Similarly, if a high melanin person mates with a low melanin one their separate genes that got passed on, remain the same, however, the skin color appears intermediate. 

While there are a number of genes involved in skin color, lfor simplicity let’s for the moment assume just one melanin and one non-melanin gene.  Further, that the high melanin person has two of those genes and the low melanin person has two of those genes.  In the above case all the children have intermediate skin color.  However, if those children mate their offspring will have a random 25% chance of having two high melanin genes, 25% chance of having two low melanin genes, and a 50% chance of having one of each.  If this group continues mating many times the population will be made up of one quarter dark persons, one quarter light persons, and half intermediate skin color persons. 

The more genes involved, the more different intermediate colors will occur. 

It seems to me that you are saying that in such a population, the intermediates will always or usually mate with the intermediates, the darks mate with other darks, and the lights with lights, but to a lesser degree.  It may be that you are conflating social morés with pure mathematical genetic randomness.

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[ Edited: 29 May 2012 04:27 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 29 May 2012 06:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I don’t know what to say to this, Occam (and Tim). Of course how people choose their mates plays an important part in all of this. We certainly don’t live in a world where people mate randomly with individuals from other groups. Indeed, the exact opposite is what happens in most cases: the vast majority of people end up with others like themselves. The Spaniard males were certainly very interested in the native females just like were the English soldiers who were marrying Indian women in India. That quickly changed, however, when white women became available (see, for example, the history of the Parsi people in India).

To say that X is right under the condition Y is irrelevant to our discussion since we know that condition Y is very rare. I still don’t get your point. Sorry.

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Posted: 29 May 2012 08:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I also imagine the European genetic admixture in African Americans is predominately due to white men raping black slave women, no?

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Posted: 30 May 2012 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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It may be very different in Canada, but in Southern California there are a great many inter-ethnic and inter-racial couples resulting in a large number of mixed heritige children.  And, when those second generation kids grow up, they will often procreate with other groups, further dispersing the genetic “purity”.

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[ Edited: 30 May 2012 09:02 AM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 30 May 2012 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Yeah, I know a few myself, too. And it’s certainly more common in the States than in Canada. But eventually the coloured people will run out of white people to marry, and then even the mulattoes will darken.

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Posted: 30 May 2012 06:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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I don’t agree with your prediction, George.  Rather, with more and more people procreating with others with different pigmentation levels, the randomness will increase until there’s a normal distribution curve with the median/average/mode color being what you call “mulatto”.  There will be very few people left who have all low melanin and very few people at the high end of the melanin range. 

One conceptual problem you may have, George, is that you seem to see only a few gradations of skin color.  I’ve mentioned before, my best friend who was the darkest of four siblings.  Since we were both involved in facets of the coating business, we used to kid that we were essentially the same color, just different shades of beige.  He told the story of he as a sixteen year old, going to the Detroit police station to get his sister out of jail because they had seen her on a date with a boy who was obviously African-American so she as a “white” girl must have been a prostitute.  When they saw her brother, they recognized their mistake and released her.

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Posted: 31 May 2012 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Mulatto isn’t a skin color, it means “a person of mixed racial ancestry.”

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Posted: 31 May 2012 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Occam. - 30 May 2012 06:42 PM

There will be very few people left who have all low melanin and very few people at the high end of the melanin range.

Again, unless something changes and the whites’ fertility goes up (it’s about 1.5 children per white woman now), what you said can’t be true. Eventually there will be nobody left with white skin and only a few people of mixed ancestry. It’s all about numbers. There are a lot more people in the world with dark skin—and with much higher fertility rate—than those with light skin.

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