Failed millenium
Posted: 13 June 2012 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi folks.

I know that Price has mentioned this a few times in his Bible Geek podcast and maybe his human bible podcast, but I am unable to find the references.

I am interested in the evolution of thought within early Christianity of the second coming of Christ.
If I recall correctly, Christ said that he would come again soon, his followers said he would come in that generation and then it was then extended and extended because of continual disappointment of the failed second coming.

I know that there is a scripture trail of this change of thought, but I need help finding it.

If any of you know the scriptural references, I would greatly appreciate some help.

Thanks,

-Clay

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Posted: 14 June 2012 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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So it looks like the synoptic texts say “this generation” (see below KJV). Does anyone know where it is downgraded to “some of this generation” and then later to “who knows?”

Mark 13
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 ¶But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 ¶But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 21
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

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Posted: 18 June 2012 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I don’t speak Greek so I can’t translate that text, but the Latin Vulgate (CE 382) translated those passages from Greek to Latin as

Mark 13:30
amen dico vobis quoniam non transiet* generatio haec donec omnia ista fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of these things shall be done.

Matthew 24:34
amen dico vobis quia non praeteribit* haec generatio donec omnia haec fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of these things shall be done.

Luke 21:32
amen dico vobis quia non praeteribit* generatio haec donec omnia fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of things shall be done.

*Note that Mark uses transire and Matthew and Luke use praeterire, both of which can be translated as “to pass.”

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Posted: 18 June 2012 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Austin Harper - 18 June 2012 10:25 AM

I don’t speak Greek so I can’t translate that text, but the Latin Vulgate (CE 382) translated those passages from Greek to Latin as

Mark 13:30
amen dico vobis quoniam non transiet* generatio haec donec omnia ista fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of these things shall be done.

Matthew 24:34
amen dico vobis quia non praeteribit* haec generatio donec omnia haec fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of these things shall be done.

Luke 21:32
amen dico vobis quia non praeteribit* generatio haec donec omnia fiant
Amen, I say to you, for this generation shall not pass until all of things shall be done.

*Note that Mark uses transire and Matthew and Luke use praeterire, both of which can be translated as “to pass.”

Thanks, Austin, for chiming in.  So are you in agreement that these three gospels agree that Jesus was going to come again in their lifetimes?  Where does the evolution to “a few among this generation” and then to “who knows when it will occur” take place?

Thanks,

-Clay

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Posted: 18 June 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Yes, I agree that the three gospels all agree that Jesus would return within one lifetime.  I don’t know how anybody could claim it to be anything else.  “This generation” is mentioned in all three versions.  Do you know which translations change it?

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Posted: 18 June 2012 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Austin Harper - 18 June 2012 11:16 AM

Yes, I agree that the three gospels all agree that Jesus would return within one lifetime.  I don’t know how anybody could claim it to be anything else.  “This generation” is mentioned in all three versions.  Do you know which translations change it?

No translation changes it, but it was my understanding that there are later redactional verses that insert the new ideas.  I am trying to find information on those, and when the transition takes place.

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