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The SCOTUS vote on health care, what its not and what it is
Posted: 28 June 2012 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]
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The decision of the court is not a victory for the President.  But one thing it is for sure, a GIAGANTIC victory for the American people.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 06:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I agree. In fact, from a political perspective, I think Roberts may have just handed the President a Trojan Horse. First, this is already energizing the GOP and especially the tea baggers. This will be the rallying cry for the general election: the only way to get rid of Obama Care is to get rid of Obama.

Second, calling the individual mandate opt-out penalty a tax has given a huge gift to those on the right who make their living from screaming about Democratic tax increases and new taxes. That one little three-letter word just changed the game.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Is it wrong that I don’t care?

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Posted: 29 June 2012 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Dead Monky - 29 June 2012 08:47 AM

Is it wrong that I don’t care?

Well, kinda, depending on what you’re not caring about. People do die from lack of health insurance (= lack of primary or preventative care), and they also bankrupt themselves and their families without it. This law is far from perfect, but arguably is as good as can be expected in today’s US ...

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Posted: 29 June 2012 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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If you don’t care about the state of the U.S. health care system it’s probably only because you don’t know anyone who is not extremely wealthy, and/or neither you nor any of your aquaintances are self-employed, or have a pre-existing medical condition, or is a cancer survivor, or suffers from a chronic condition or a debilitating disease, or have family members with any serious medical problems.  It must be nice.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I can’t buy insurance at any cost for my very healthy brother, because he has Down Syndrome. Even though he has none of the health problems associated with Down Syndrome. His only choice is medical, but he is not eligible for that, because he has too much money….so any care has to be paid for in cash. When you have to pay cash, you are penalized, and pay a much higher price than others do.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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This could be another step towards the goal of socialized, universal health care.  If the Pres. and congress can’t sell this to the American people and make this stick-oh well.  Another solid example of the genius of getting people to vote against their own interests.  This includes the likes of Dead Monkey, who in not caring is simply letting pigs and cretins decide his fate for him.
The majority rule determines and interprets the Constitution.  Oh, pundits and and armchair scholars will say it’s not supposed to be that way or some such dreck.  But what is and what should be are 2 different things.
The powers that be need to sell this to the common people and let the roll-tide rule!!  That’s life in action!

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Posted: 29 June 2012 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I immediately thought that Roberts, while making a good legal decision, left a ticking bomb in the political arena, the word TAX is loaded with some serious freight.
The American people won, even if some don’t know it, but access to health insurance is a actual human right and shouldn’t be a political football.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I immediately thought that Roberts, while making a good legal decision, left a ticking bomb in the political arena, the word TAX is loaded with some serious freight.

You can be sure he knows it too. One would have to blind and deaf above and beyond the call of blind and deaf to not be aware of the fact that “Tax” is a word which gets the blood boiling.

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Posted: 29 June 2012 11:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Since he defined it as a tax, and all taxes have to originate in the House of Representatives, this may be a way the Republicans can get the entire bill thrown out.  If so, it would be a very sneaky way of Roberts being a super-conservative.

Occam

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Posted: 30 June 2012 05:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Occam. - 29 June 2012 11:34 PM

Since he defined it as a tax, and all taxes have to originate in the House of Representatives, this may be a way the Republicans can get the entire bill thrown out.  If so, it would be a very sneaky way of Roberts being a super-conservative.

Occam

Oh gosh, just when I started thinking Roberts wasn’t all bad, I get the cold slap in the face.

I happened to be listening to NPR when the news came down, and frankly expected the court to f’ over the bill something fierce.  I thought the deal with declaring the payment mandate a TAX made sense.  But, them I belong to that tiny minority who don’t have a blanket hatred for all taxes since I believe we should all pitch in since we want all the gov’ment services we demand.

~ ~ ~
And I’m one of those poor but healthy people that has managed to skirt by without medical insurance, so this will be impacting me directly, but hey, it makes sense.

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Posted: 01 July 2012 11:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Occam. - 29 June 2012 11:34 PM

Since he defined it as a tax, and all taxes have to originate in the House of Representatives, this may be a way the Republicans can get the entire bill thrown out.  If so, it would be a very sneaky way of Roberts being a super-conservative.

Occam

Well, I don’t know.  As the majority opinion points out, the Supremes of the past have transformed a variety of things into a “tax” to rescue them from the curse of unconstitutionality.  I think it’s a bit late to contend in the courts that this “tax” is void; I don’t know if that was argued by the mandates opponents in the courts, but if not it should have been, and the failure to do so may result in claim or issue preclusion for purposes of future litigation.  It may add weight to efforts to repeal in Congress.

I’m not very impressed by the “tax” gambit in this case, where the record so clearly indicates (and where it is still being claimed by the administration) that there is no tax involved, and given the fact that the “tax” in question will be imposed for doing nothing.  If a tax was imposed to support a system of national healthcare, however, I doubt that it could be maintained there is any constitutional issue.

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Posted: 01 July 2012 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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This has all been a game of semantics. Calling this a tax would have made it difficult to pass. Not for any good reason, just because this is the game that politicians play with public ignorance. Its an odd way to do business but its the way our political system works these days.

So now we have a far from perfect new health financing system but it does accomplish at least one very important thing. It forces everyone to buy ( or taxes them to pay for) health insurance. one of the main reasons health care is more expensive in the US than elsewhere is because the healthiest people in the US are the ones least likely to have insurance. This drives up the rates for the people who are insured but also have more health problems. If you can create a system where everyone is insured you have a lot more people paying into a system who are not using it so premiums for everyone go down. This system does nto accomplish that but it moves us closer to that goal.

Hopefully once people get used to a system where many more people are insured they will be less inclined to give it up and more likely to some day push for truly universal healthcare even if it means that we all will be taxed in some fashion to pay for it especially since the tax would most likely be offset by the ability of everyone to drop their health insurance premiums.

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Posted: 02 July 2012 03:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Jeciron - 29 June 2012 09:56 AM

If you don’t care about the state of the U.S. health care system it’s probably only because you don’t know anyone who is not extremely wealthy, and/or neither you nor any of your aquaintances are self-employed, or have a pre-existing medical condition, or is a cancer survivor, or suffers from a chronic condition or a debilitating disease, or have family members with any serious medical problems.  It must be nice.

I have a chronic condition, and I don’t care about the state of the US health care system.

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Posted: 02 July 2012 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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mid atlantic - 02 July 2012 03:27 AM
Jeciron - 29 June 2012 09:56 AM

If you don’t care about the state of the U.S. health care system it’s probably only because you don’t know anyone who is not extremely wealthy, and/or neither you nor any of your aquaintances are self-employed, or have a pre-existing medical condition, or is a cancer survivor, or suffers from a chronic condition or a debilitating disease, or have family members with any serious medical problems.  It must be nice.

I have a chronic condition, and I don’t care about the state of the US health care system.

You must have health insurance then? A health insurance that you are mostly satisfied with.

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Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

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Posted: 02 July 2012 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Jeciron - 29 June 2012 09:56 AM

If you don’t care about the state of the U.S. health care system it’s probably only because you don’t know anyone who is not extremely wealthy, and/or neither you nor any of your aquaintances are self-employed, or have a pre-existing medical condition, or is a cancer survivor, or suffers from a chronic condition or a debilitating disease, or have family members with any serious medical problems.  It must be nice.

Let’s see, I live below the poverty line as do most of my friends and family; my step-father is self-employed and diabetic; I still owe a couple grand from my gallbladder surgery a couple years back; both my gf and myself need some sort of help with depression; and so on.  I have plenty of reasons to care.  Yet I don’t.  I don’t care because I’ve simply grown too disillusioned, cynical, and apathetic to give a damn about much of anything.  I could go into why, but I don’t really have the time right now.

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