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New voter ID laws politically motivated?
Posted: 10 July 2012 07:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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In 10 years, just 100 federal prosecutions and 50 state convictions—in a colossal state with a population of more than 25 million people. You can do the math. You can be stupid and vote in America. You can be drunk and vote in America. You can be mentally insane and vote in America. You could vote in America for Snooki or Rod Blagojevich. Or, like tens of millions of your fellow citizens, you can choose not to vote at all. But if you don’t have the means to get a driver’s license, or if you cannot afford the time and money it takes to get certain other forms of government ID, you are out of luck? What a great country this is.


Referring to the current Texas law discriminating against Poor minorities ( primarily Hispanic), this sums it up.


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Posted: 10 July 2012 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/


BTW, the quote came from this article in “The Atlantic” .


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 10 July 2012 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Onerous?

http://sos.georgia.gov/gaphotoid/

Food for thought (for the sake of argument):  Does the risk of one person not voting because of difficulty obtaining identification outweigh allowing five people to vote illegally?

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Posted: 10 July 2012 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I’ve a question.  How often do people actually illegally vote in this country?  Because according to the wiki on electoral fraud (and some other wikis and their various source articles), it seems to be very, very rare.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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It is rare. I’m not saying there isn’t any vote fraud. It happens all the time. But not because non-citizens are voting. The kind of voter fraud that is most common would not be abated in the least by requiring ID. It’s good old fashioned vote buying.

Like I said earlier, this is a solution in need of a problem. It’s simply a smokescreen; the real agenda is to disenfranchise those who would most likely vote against the Republican party. Much like the laws that kept southern African Americans from the polls in earlier times without specifically excluding them (which was illegal of course).

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Posted: 10 July 2012 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Dead Monky - 10 July 2012 08:52 AM

How often do people actually illegally vote in this country?  Because according to the wiki on electoral fraud (and some other wikis and their various source articles), it seems to be very, very rare.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, our system makes it hard to figure out how many people have voted illegally.

Florida’s investigation indicates that as many as 18,000 non-citizens occur on its voter rolls.  That’s the high-end estimate.  The actual number is undoubtedly (we should hope!) far lower than that.  But you can’t know without the tools to find out and the will to look.  Another investigation by the Miami Herald indicated that thousands of convicted felons may have voted illegally in the 2000 election.  But, again, it’s hard to know for sure because the system doesn’t have the tools to easily ferret out cases of voter fraud.  This ends up turning into the claim that voter fraud is rare and thus not a problem.  Yet that evidence is essentially an appeal to ignorance (if we don’t know about the voter fraud then it isn’t occurring).

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Posted: 10 July 2012 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Of course the voter ID laws are politically motivated.  The one in Texas was written so that a concealed carry ID would work but a college student ID would not.  Guess who is more likely to be Republican vs. Democrat:  Concealed carry licensee or college student.  Politicians go for every concievable edge that they can to maintain their grip on power.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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TimB - 10 July 2012 11:05 AM

Of course the voter ID laws are politically motivated.  The one in Texas was written so that a concealed carry ID would work but a college student ID would not.  Guess who is more likely to be Republican vs. Democrat:  Concealed carry licensee or college student.  Politicians go for every concievable edge that they can to maintain their grip on power.

Guess which one is more likely to come from out of state?

And how many college students aren’t going to have a driver’s license?  Any student without a driver’s license probably should have a concealed carry permit.  wink

Voter ID laws are popular with constituents across party lines, and it’s worth noting the grounds on which the Justice Department is challenging them.  Part of the Voting Rights Act requires some states (or particular regions within states) to get pre-approval for certain changes to its voter laws.  If advocating voter ID laws is political, opposition to it is hardly less so.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Let’s try something different.  Instead of criticizing the motivations of those who are coming up with voter ID laws and trying to remove non-citizens from voter rolls, please share what you would do to help ensure that ineligible voters do not erode the franchise for legitimate voters.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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If only hypocrisy served as an ID, Democrats wold never be with theirs:


An ID is required to get inside Eric Holder’s Department of “Justice.” 


Michelle Obama requires a photo ID and SS number before she will sign her book.


Here a union (which donated over $26 million to Democratic candidates and causes since 1990) requires a photo ID to vote in one of its elections:

111207_boeinggraphic_ap_328.jpg


Democrats require ID to get into their convention.


But the all time best is showing how easy it is to vote using Eric Holder’s name without any ID. grin  grin


We all know the real reason Democrats oppose showing a valid ID to vote (in elections other than Democrat-dominated union elections).  It’s because IDs make it harder for them to commit vote fraud.  Period.  All the hyperventilated screaming about “racism” (besides being projection on their part) comes from the Party-That-Cries-Racism.  Hardly a day goes by they don’t scream it.  It’s really all they have because they can’t oppose voter ID on rational grounds, so they resort to the emotional (and false) claim of racism.   

things-that-require-an-ID.jpg

I’m a card carrying libertarian (pun intended), and I have no problem with ID for any of the above.  Of course, I’m also against voter fraud.  Democrats are not against it.  Plain and simple.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Why are there no Democrats or liberals or lefties complaining about the possibility of voter fraud.  Surely voter fraud doesn’t just take place in certain precincts.
Republicans or right-wingers probably engage in voter fraud…nobody’s bitching about that. 
You know why?  Because it’s about preventing people from voting, not enabling people to vote.  It has nothing to do with fraud.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 10:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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I’ll admit my own bias, to me, it appears like a political ploy from conservatives. However, as Bryan mentioned (and assuming he’s correct) if there is information which can answer this question (or at least part of it) why not provide it?

In California:

An ID costs $26.00 (Source)

A birth certificate costs: $18.00 (Source.)

Part of me thinks that providing an ID to vote isn’t that big of a deal. However, I believe I see the side that makes it a burden on the poor. $26 is a couple of meals when you’re poor.

In California they just ask our name and address without any proof that the data is correct. So it seems that it wouldn’t be too difficult to lie and say I was someone else and cast a vote. Assuming I (and many cohorts) pretend to be other people, how many fraudulent votes would we have to cast to affect an election? Wouldn’t we need a huge number of people? And the more important the election, the greater the number of conspirators would be required. Which would make it even harder to keep the secret wouldn’t it?

I’m all over the place with this because: I don’t know (however, see bias admission above). There are compelling bits in each side’s argument, but nothing (IMO) conclusive.

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 10 July 2012 10:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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I don’t know about the Texas law, but the Georgia law I linked above (through the Georgia SoS office) provides for free ID cards and apparently will help people obtain them if travel and lines are an issue (hence the contact information).  One does not need a birth certificate to establish d.o.b. for the state of Georgia.  One of a number of documents featuring the d.o.b. would serve.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 11:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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harry canyon - 10 July 2012 10:33 PM

I’ll admit my own bias, to me, it appears like a political ploy from conservatives. However, as Bryan mentioned (and assuming he’s correct) if there is information which can answer this question (or at least part of it) why not provide it?

In California:

An ID costs $26.00 (Source)

A birth certificate costs: $18.00 (Source.)

Part of me thinks that providing an ID to vote isn’t that big of a deal. However, I believe I see the side that makes it a burden on the poor. $26 is a couple of meals when you’re poor.

In California they just ask our name and address without any proof that the data is correct. So it seems that it wouldn’t be too difficult to lie and say I was someone else and cast a vote. Assuming I (and many cohorts) pretend to be other people, how many fraudulent votes would we have to cast to affect an election? Wouldn’t we need a huge number of people? And the more important the election, the greater the number of conspirators would be required. Which would make it even harder to keep the secret wouldn’t it?

I’m all over the place with this because: I don’t know (however, see bias admission above). There are compelling bits in each side’s argument, but nothing (IMO) conclusive.

Take care,

Derek

If you’re that damn poor, then you should not even worry about voting, IMO.

They should add a new amendment to the constitution - destitute stay away.

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Posted: 10 July 2012 11:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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mid atlantic - 10 July 2012 11:01 PM

If you’re that damn poor, then you should not even worry about voting, IMO.

They should add a new amendment to the constitution - destitute stay away.

I assume you are joking. Early voting laws actually did have such disenfranchising ‘amendments’: only property owners could vote, and slaves (for example) could not.

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