There is an old saying concerning atheists, but I can’t think of the exact words, but the statement compares atheists to herding cats.  Why do atheists need a leader?  Why should they have a leader, esp when none of them fall for group thinking?  One of the reasons atheists are compared to herding cats is because there is rarely any group mentality.

Now if you want to talk about compassion and all, then let’s talk about humanism, because that seems to be what you are actually talking about and not atheism.

None of you have given me a sufficient argument to state that atheism does not accept all things / ideas / concepts.

And we don’t have to. Why should any of us pander to your preconcieved notions?

So far, all I’ve seen you do is your absolute level best to confuse and conflate any number of issues as well as toss out numerous red herrings and false dichotomies. We’ve tried very hard to explain to you exactly what atheism is and what it is not. Your persistance in ignoring and deflecting all of that makes me wonder if you’re

a) actually here to learn anything OR

b) just here to get people riled up.

Which is it?

This is actually what you are talking about, Cjgager, not atheism:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=what_is
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=values
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=affirmations
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=declaration

http://www.americanhumanist.org/Humanism/What_is_Humanism
http://www.americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

As for a leader… it depends on how you define leader.

we are all hiding behind an excuse.
the excuse being - “all i’m saying is there is no god”.
you all are WRONG to say/believe that THAT is all there is to it.
we ALL are part of this world.  this HUMAN world.
to admit that there is no god is a great step forward -
but to leave it at that is - - -
like this.
hanging and useless.
what good is a point that no one other than yourselves believes in?
WE ALL could make the world BETTER.
Don’t any of you care to use YOUR FAITH/BELIEF/ASSUMPTION/SUPPOSITION in a non-god world a way to make the world a better place?

you tell me - - - what is the “goodness” of atheism.

Cjgager - 28 July 2012 09:21 PM

WE ALL could make the world BETTER.
Don’t any of you care to use YOUR FAITH/BELIEF/ASSUMPTION/SUPPOSITION in a non-god world a way to make the world a better place?

Yes, that’s why I’m a humanist.

I think you are missing the point.  A theist just believes in a deity, but beyond that, that’s it.  A theist can be a Xian, Jew, Hindu, or Muslim, just as an atheist can be a humanist, naturalist, or any other non-theistic philosophy.

Cjgager - 28 July 2012 09:27 PM

you tell me - - - what is the “goodness” of atheism.

There is no “goodness” or “badness” inherently in Atheism.

As many members have stated, what you’re talking about is Secular Humanism; it’s a philosophy and/or life stance of being “good” without god.

Study on it, instead of repeating the same shrill complaints of how atheism is cold and heartless.

Cjgager - 22 July 2012 06:12 PM

someone said atheism is a lack - or a denial - in the belief of a god - that is all - which is true.
what i want to say is - just because one denies a presence of a god - one should not deny a presence of a human spirit - and to respect that - no matter what form that spirit is shown.  and yes - atheism DOES accept all things - otherwise it is just as exclusive as others.

No, atheism is a lack of a belief in ANY deity or supernatural being. That is ALL. Your ‘explanation’ is rather like calling not golfing a sport, or calling bald a hair color.

atheism is a negative - A - i.e., - anti - theism.  it is deemed in america with a negative connotation.

Actually, the ‘a’ means without, not against.

mr. flynn’s statements during a national trauma illustrates the negative aspect by supposedly stating and thereby politicizing the atheistic community’s opinions about “prayer” - but in actuality he merely excerbated a very hurt and wounded community in mourning - it did no atheist proponent nor the atheistic community any good.

Wow, this is the sort of statement I am used to hearing whenever a black person or woman, etc….spouts off something idiotic. Flynn does not speak for the atheist ‘community’, any more than Jesse Jackson speaks for the black community. To think that atheists do anything in lockstep, is to have a complete misunderstanding of what an atheist is.  As I would not conflate the views of one man to represent every man on earth just because they all (mostly, anyway) have at least one y chromosome, you cannot assume all atheists think alike in any other matter than non-belief in deities.

Atheism CAN BE a very positive movement - but if everyone continues to chatter about really non-relevant points - like chastising politicians or anyone offering condolences to a strickened community in the form of “prayers” as being non-inclusive of non-believers - then the idea and substance of god-freedom has been lost through tactlessness.

NOTHING about atheism includes an ‘everyone’ EXCEPT non belief in deities

Atheists are seen as callous because their leaders are tactless.  We know we do care.  Don’t let anger be the reason that you are driven.

If you change ‘atheists’ to blacks, jews, muslims, buddists, perhaps you would see how misguided this view is…or perhaps not….

Cjgager
Yet - every atheist {oh, don’t even pretend you don’t want this} would love a place to congregate and be one with a non-belief and have that non-belief recognized - and have that non-belief made into a political power which could change the world’s views into non-religious viewpoints

No I don’t and I am not pretending. I congregate with people who are smart so that I can learn, I congregate with people who are concerned and discuss issues which are important to earth and the life thereon. I care not one wit if a person is theist or atheist, as long as he/she makes sense without the invocation of God.

You seem to forget that one is not compelled to make a gratuitous declaration of non belief in anything. The list is just a little too long for an intellectual relationship to flourish…...  

You want to believe in God, fine. Now how are you going to help humanity?  Please don’t tell me you are going to bring “glad tidings” in the name of God.

Cjgager, you’re posts are a nice example of the worst kind of fanaticism in that you won’t change your mind on something even though you’ve seen a lot of very positive refutations of your position. Worse yet, you keep confusing and conflating atheism with everything else.

Let me try one more time to see if I can get the point across: Atheism is single issue in that it deals ONLY with a lack of belief in any deity. It does NOT deal with ANY other question..

Atheists can and do deal with all those other questions, but there is no relationship between one and all the others.

Now, if you refuse to understand this, then please tell me why I should even bother dealing with you?

Cjgager - 20 July 2012 09:16 PM

....... Obama’s statements had nothing to do with religion - it was his intent, which you missed. ........

A politician has a tough job in a situation like this.   

I agree with Tom Flynn that what Obama should articulate is not that we hope that God will do something to comfort the vicitm’s families, but that the comfort must come from us.

Jackson - 29 July 2012 05:40 PM

Cjgager - 20 July 2012 09:16 PM

....... Obama’s statements had nothing to do with religion - it was his intent, which you missed. ........

A politician has a tough job in a situation like this.   

I agree with Tom Flynn that what Obama should articulate is not that we hope that God will do something to comfort the vicitm’s families, but that the comfort must come from us.

This is a curious situation isn’t it?
As president, Obama has to welcome every one (regardless of race creed or religion) into his heart and assume responsibility for their safety and comfort.  Regardless of his own beliefs he has a duty to speak about such an event in context.  This is not the time to discuss the merits of the speech itself, but to share the grief of the fallen and offer them comfort. Ethical consderations can be set aside for a few days I’m sure.

My heart aches for those who have suffered trauma as a result of this senseless act, and the chaos and criminal negligence in our political houses which allowed this individual to acquire weapons of (local) mass destruction!?

I have never met a hunter who advocated more than two bullets for a kill. I am absolutely sure no hunter would advocate emptying a 100 round clip into a herd of deer.  These military weapons are weapons of aggression, designed to kill people in large numbers. No hunter would miss such a weapon in his hunting arsenal.

This is a curious situation isn’t it?
As president, Obama has to welcome every one (regardless of race creed or religion) into his heart and assume responsibility for their safety and comfort.  Regardless of his own beliefs he has a duty to speak about such an event in context.  This is not the time to discuss the merits of the speech itself, but to share the grief of the fallen and offer them comfort. Ethical consderations can be set aside for a few days I’m sure.

For what it’s worth the Pres. Identifies himself as a xtian, Church of Christ I believe and was geuninely invoking god on behalf of the slain and the survivors. I have no more problem with this than with someone god blessing me when I sneeze. I really don’t think he meant to make a statement about the first amendment any more than Jefferson invoking divine providence. After the mourning period and that asshole gets his just punishment, whatever that is, then we can ask him about his continuance of the faith based initiative created by Bush. That should be real bone of contention for us all. As to hunters objecting to the assassin’s purchase of 6,000 rounds of military style ammo, many would say that it’s ok to keep dangerous weapons out often hands of the insane. Drum clips for AR 15 assault rifles should be reserved for the military only. No one hunts with a fully automatic weapon. What’s the point? As hunting has been relegated to a sport, spewing lead at a moving target is definitely not sporting.

Cap’t Jack

Cjgager - 28 July 2012 09:27 PM

you tell me - - - what is the “goodness” of atheism.

There is as much ‘goodness’ in atheism as there is in baldness, tallness, or being Kermit the Frog. You are referring to humanism, and you can be a theist/agnostic/atheist and a humanist.

What is the “goodness” of Theism?