12 of 13
12
In search of WILLPOWER—I am here to inquire: Is it a real power?
Posted: 19 August 2013 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
Lois - 19 August 2013 01:00 AM

We have no will power because we lack free will.

Lois

Thanks for your comment, Lois. Would you like to have a dialogue about this?

Me? Of course I prefer having a dialogue rather than a debate: In my opinion debating, is about having a zero-sum game—one in which there are winners (often arrogant and violent ones) and losers (often feeling sad and left harbouring visions of future revenge ).

Having a dialogue, on the other hand, is about having a diplomatic conversation—one that is reason and compassion based—in which the goal is having a win-win game—in which all participants can gain some very valuable information of the kind that can help all involved have more peace of mind and prosperity in the future,  and meanwhile have fun playing the game.

ABOUT REASON AND COMPASSION—which I strongly support, take a look at this quote from the ABOUT section of the CFI ...

... In aiming to foster a secular society, we do not seek to abridge the rights of believers. We vigorously object to government support of religion and the use of religious dogma to justify public policy; we do not oppose the free exercise of religion. The secular society we are building is a community of reason and compassion in which the dignity and fundamental rights of all individuals are respected.

As one who objects to having any kind of theocracy—ruled by religious leaders, gods or God—running things, I also strongly support the idea of having a secular and democratically-elected government that agrees not to, “abridge the rights of believers”.

BTW, don’t think for a moment that I am lonely in writing about the things I mention here: PHILOSOPHY, WILLPOWER, PNEUMATOLOGY AND THE LIKE.  One thread, alone—one I started in a Science forum, in 2007, with a section for psychology/philosophy, now has: 

2, 154 replies     and   6, 341, 980 hits.—many new hits come in, daily

For details about this and other popular threads, send me a PM. As one who has run for public office, I also write about the political economy.

[ Edited: 19 August 2013 11:40 AM by RevLGKing ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 September 2013 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30

Lois, you say, “We have no will power because we lack free will. “

Me?

Is it OK if I choose to believe otherwise and say: I will and choose to believe that G~Õ~D is not a god-like supernatural being, but REALITY—the kind being explored and revealed by the moral and ethical use of the sciences in the search for what is true.

Obviously not all Christians are ignorant bigots who reject the moral and ethical use of the sciences.
BTW, Check out the following:

SCIENCE-BASED APPROACH TO SPIRITUALITY
A recent book on the topic is now endorsed by 6 Nobel Laureates and the NY Times—see the link, below!
In his book, Michael Dowd—a lover of creating and using neologisms, when he feels one is needed—coined the word “creatheist” (cre, uh, theist) and gave it a meaning. He and his wife (also a writer) often work together in this process.

WHEN THE STUDENT IS READY, THE TEACHER WILL APPEAR  grin
What he writes about creatheism—we are in and surrounded by god—is similar to the unitheist kind of theology, which I have been talking about since I was ordained in 1953 (IMO, Jesus said it 2000 years ago). Finally, it now seems that since many students are ready, the teacher, which all curious seekers need, has arrived. Lois, may I introduce you to:

The Rev. Michael Dowd, a big integrity / big history / epic of evolution enthusiast, is one of the most inspiring speakers in America today.

He is the author of the book,Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will Transform Your Life and Our World—a book endorsed by 6 Nobel laureates and other science luminaries, including noted skeptics, and by religious leaders across the spectrum.

He and his wife, Connie Barlow, an acclaimed science writer and family educator, have spoken to more than 1,500 groups, as “America’s evolutionary evangelists”, since launching their itinerant ministry in 2002.

At home in both liberal and conservative settings, and uniquely gifted at building bridges between religious and non-religious people, Michael shares the epic of evolution, our common creation story, in ways that uplift and expand heart, mind, and soul.

An outspoken religious naturalist, his passion is showing how an evolutionary understanding of human nature can inspire and empower each of us to live with greater integrity, joy, and zest for life. New Hampshire Public Television recently aired a 27-minute documentary on Rev. Dowd’s ministry.

http://thankgodforevolution.com/the-author

ABOUT THE BOOK:
http://thankgodforevolution.com


G~Õ~D, not a supernatural being. Note the O with a tilde(~), which indicates processing ad infinitum. It points to that which is over all, within all, and around all; that which Generates, Organizes and Delivers; that which gives us Good, Orderly Direction and helps us find that which is Good, Opportune & Desirable.

[ Edited: 24 September 2013 09:00 AM by Occam. ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 September 2013 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Rev, PLEASE DO NOT USE BLUE.  You can use any of the other colors to identify specific items, but blue is reserved for official comments or directives made by the Administrator or the Moderators.  I have not changed the color.  You can change it, or if you prefer, I can go in and change it to, say, red.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 September 2013 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3330
Joined  2011-11-04

I am late to this topic, but I think that what we call willpower, is simply an intense single-minded focus on achieving a particular goal.  The focus on the goal being such that nothing is allowed to distract from, or successfully deter one from, action toward its achievement.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 September 2013 08:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30

Occam, I tried my best to change the items that are in a lovely blue;
But something—a demon it seems cool grin—took control.
So now it is over to you.
Which happens to make a rhyme, too grin

[ Edited: 23 September 2013 08:50 PM by RevLGKing ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 September 2013 09:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3330
Joined  2011-11-04

Oops, I didn’t know we were rhyming.
Like good old Yoda, in with you all, I am chiming.
That will is acting with extraordinary focus on a goal, is my claim.
Whether I have free will or not, I would tell you the same.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Thanks, Rev.  I believe the book title was also in color so I added red there, too.  Hope that was correct.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6195
Joined  2006-12-20
Lois - 19 August 2013 01:00 AM

We have no will power because we lack free will.

Lois

I think you’ll find we have will power Lois.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vefDeoXCBbk

Stephen

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
TimB - 23 September 2013 09:22 PM

Oops, I didn’t know we were rhyming.
Like good old Yoda, in with you all, I am chiming.
That will is acting with extraordinary focus on a goal, is my claim.
Whether I have free will or not, I would tell you the same.

About the rhyming, TimB: Like most of my rhymes, it was a happenstance. And thanks for getting involved in this thread; in what I like to think of as an opportunity to have a pleasant dialogue, or conversation. One more thing: Thanks for your meaningful rhyme. Feel free to do it whenever you get the urge.  grin

Born in 1930—And what a happenstance that was!—life for me has been an amazing series of them since then. 

BTW, Tim, unless you choose to remain silent about such matters—your right so to be—I am a very curious kind of person. Feel free to tell us—or, like Lois, send me a private message—about your philosophy of life and personal interests.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3330
Joined  2011-11-04

Rev, Thanks for your reply.  If you are interested in my philosophy of life, you could probably glean that from my posts on this forum.  Over 2400 and counting.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Like fine wine, 1930 was a GREAT year since both Rev and I were born then.  LOL

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3330
Joined  2011-11-04
Occam. - 24 September 2013 06:26 PM

Like fine wine, 1930 was a GREAT year since both Rev and I were born then.  LOL

Occam

This may be a “trip for biscuits”, but tell me, were the 30’s “aces” or “all wet”?

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 24 September 2013 06:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

I’d say they were aces since, as I’ve related before, my mother taught me to read at three by reading mythology to me.  Then when I was six my snotty aunt excoriated my father for not giving me religious education and allowing me to read trash (comic books).  He replied, “I don’t care what he reads as long as he does.”  She then gave me a child’s bible for my birthday.  I loved it because I saw it as another great source of mythology.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 29 September 2013 08:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30

More about the book:

Thank GOD for EVOLUTION—How the marriage of science and religion will transform your life and our world.

I am surprised that, other than my comment, no one at http://www.scienceagogo.com has mentioned it. It is recommended by the NY Times and 6 Nobel Science winners.

http://www.ThankGodforEvolution.com—open to all religious traditions. Then there is http://www.TheGreatStory.org—an affiliated educational website ...

[ Edited: 30 September 2013 07:01 AM by RevLGKing ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 September 2013 02:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
RevLGKing - 29 September 2013 08:00 PM

More about the book:

Thank GOD for EVOLUTION—How the marriage of science and religion will transform your life and our world.

I am surprised that, other than my comment, no one at http://www.scienceagogo.com has mentioned it. It is recommended by the NY Times and 6 Nobel Science winners.

http://www.ThankGodforEvolution.net—open to all religious traditions. Then there is http://www.TheGreatStory.org—an affiliated educational website ...

I’ll pass, thank you. It is like saying 6 Nobel prize winners recommended ‘views of Mars from Russell’s teapot’. Not impressed by the Nobel recommendation. Tell me, were they scientist who received a Nobel prize in the field of evolutionary biology or abiogenesis? A Nobel prize winner, wins a prize in his or her narrow field of specialty, which says nothing about what he or she knows about anything else. Unless this is their specific field, the recommendation of 100 Nobel prize winners would fail to impress me.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
   
12 of 13
12