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Is dipping the flag a worthwhile tradition?
Posted: 27 July 2012 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]
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US bucks flag custom for queen
Many countries dip their flags as they pass the queen. The US decided ahead of time to keep the Star-Spangled Banner high.

Personally, I feel that dipping the flag is not a sign of weakness, but rather an acknowledgement of the legitimacy of the host country.
Not dipping the flag is a diplomatic faux pas.

What say you ?

[ Edited: 27 July 2012 03:46 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 July 2012 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Could you explain the context. I haven’t seen the original story.

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Posted: 27 July 2012 05:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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macgyver - 27 July 2012 04:58 PM

Could you explain the context. I haven’t seen the original story.

Apparently the flag was not dipped during the Olympic opening ceremonies, attended by the Queen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/oly-usa-flag-adv-idUSL6E8IQQ1N20120726

[ Edited: 27 July 2012 05:13 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 July 2012 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Dipping the US flag has always been seen as a sign of subservience and Title 4 of the US code deals with proper flag etiquette. It clearly states that the national flag will not be dipped for any reason. This is an early 20th Century tradition dating to the pre-Spanish American War era. It’s a tradition likely borrowed from the military. Personally, I don’t see acknowledging your host as a problem, but somehow the president will be blamed as kowtowing to our former owners. There will be political fallout attached to it no matter what he does.


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Posted: 27 July 2012 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Yes, it is the psychology of the culture.
But this was not a military parade and I believe that at least tipping your hat to your host is good manners. The dipping here would have been a nod of acknowledgement to the host country and it’s leaders.  We just can’t seem to be gracious or there are cries of submission and weakness. Sparta!!!!!!

p.s. and then Romney had to open his mouth and criticize England for it’s lack of preparedness. Very diplomatic…!!?

[ Edited: 27 July 2012 06:50 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 July 2012 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Yes, the Brits refer to him as “Mitt the Twit” for his criticism of the Brits. Not off to a good start is he? I see no reason why we as fellow humans shouldn’t at least recognize our host to show our appreciation. We’re not submitting to the damn queen. We’ve been allies for 200 years now. Breaking with tradition now and then won’t cause America to collapse or show weakness to our enemies. We’d be a hellava lot better off meeting them on the soccer field anyway then let the fans fight it out in the stands!

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Posted: 28 July 2012 05:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Flags are all about symbolism, history, and national pride. They serve no other useful purpose. As such, I think one really needs to understand all of those things before passing judgement on how a country treats its flag. I am only speculating since we are not party to the discussion that went into this decision, but given our history as subjects of England and the revolution we had to fight to get out from under their rule I could understand a national policy not to lower our flag to any other ruler especially a monarch.

In the scheme of things I’m not sure any of this really matters much though.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 05:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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In the scheme of things I’m not sure any of this really matters much though.

My point exactly. The flag represents and has always represented an attitude of recognition and through it’s symbolism it generates patriotic pride In the national culture of a particular people. my point is that this event is meant to bring all of the nations together for an international celebration of physical prowess and non lethal competition. As I mentioned before, the fact that England is our host doesn’t mean that by jesture we’re desperately wanting to reunite with our former mother country. But as you said, it’s a moot point now.


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Posted: 28 July 2012 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Uh, hey, doesn’t the queen claim to rule through divine authority?.  I’m pretty unenthusiastic about that whole flag thing anyway, but showing any kind of respect for an unelected Monarch, symbolic or not, claiming religious validation or not, I just can’t get behind that.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Jeciron - 28 July 2012 11:38 AM

Uh, hey, doesn’t the queen claim to rule through divine authority?.  I’m pretty unenthusiastic about that whole flag thing anyway, but showing any kind of respect for an unelected Monarch, symbolic or not, claiming religious validation or not, I just can’t get behind that.

I always called the british monarchy a “living museum”. But the people seem to be content to maintain this institution. Apparently they do find some positive aspects to the pomp.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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The Brits seem to pretty mixed about the monarchy. On the one hand she represents an unbroken tradition of rule from 1066 CE and is a living symbol of the British people. Plus she’s one hell of a tourist attraction. Americans by the thousands visit there annually just to catch a glimpse of the pomp and firmer glory of the fading empire. On the other she represents an antiquated system that drains off millions of pounds just for the upkeep on the palaces and to keep her in hats. One of my acquaintances, a professor at Cambridgeshire University feels this way. Why keep up the pretence that she and the rest of the Windsors have any relevance to the British government today? Keep the Union Jack; ditch the queen. Although it probably won’t happen any more than us dipping our flag to her. Traditions die hard, especially ones that have been around a thousand years.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 04:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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When in Rome . . .  If one goes to a Jewish friend’s home for a barbecue party one probably shouldn’t bring pork chops to grill.  If someone comes to my home for a dinner party, and they know I and most ot the members there are atheists I would not be happy if they disrupted the beginning of the meal by loudly saying grace.  If the queen visited the U.S. and was seated in the reviewing stand as the military marched by, she should not expect the soldiers to dip the flag.  Since the event is taking place in England and we are their guests, it would have been polite and civil to dip the flag.  Not doing so can only cause a great many British (and other) citizens to have a lower opinion of the U.S. They may feel we;  a) Are too dumb to know what we were supposed to do;  b) Are too egotistical to behave in a socially correct mnner; c) Feel we are too powerful to ever bow, even in a ceremonial manner, to anyone.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Most Americans would pick C. Were you taught to say the pledge in school Occam?

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Posted: 28 July 2012 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Yup, although when I went to school we said: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

And I don’t see where that indicates us being too powerful to be respectful of another country’s traditions.

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Posted: 28 July 2012 08:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Yup, although when I went to school we said: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

And I don’t see where that indicates us being too powerful to be respectful of another country’s traditions.

Occam

That’s right, it wasn’t altered until 1956 I believe. mental conditioning. Flag=liberty and justice. We don’t sacrifice these to appease another country’s traditions or expectations. “My country right or wrong, but my country after all”.


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Posted: 28 July 2012 11:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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If it was up to me, I would have no problem dipping the flag.

If you’re willing to go to a foreign country, and especially if you are engaging in diplomatic pursuits, then it behooves you to honor their way.

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