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Does the ability to feel pain determine whether abortion is ok or not?
Posted: 11 August 2012 09:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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asanta - 11 August 2012 09:05 PM

And what about those cases where there are conjoined twins, and one is much weaker than the other. I case like this occurred in SoCa a few years ago. One twin had a normal heart, the other did not and was dependent on her sibs heart to survive. The ‘healthy’ twin could not support two bodies, and her sister could not survive alone. The decision was made to separate them as soon as possible to allow one to survive. There are also the occasional incidence of a ‘parasitic twin’ which appears as an extra limb in an odd place, sometimes even a head with a brain, eyes and mouth, but no way to talk or breathe without an esophagus or trachea. In these cases, the twin is usually excised but I rarely hear an uproar when this happens, although they are also a ‘human being’ by pro-life criteria.

When abortion was first legalized, women needed the consent of their husbands to terminate the pregnancy, if they were married. It became quickly apparent that men used this to control women who were in abusive relationships and this was changed.

That is a good point, asanta, one I’ll have to remember next time I’m in an abortion debate.  Thanks.

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Posted: 12 August 2012 06:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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What percentage of abortions are because of heads or arms growing out of a conjoined twin?

student

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Posted: 12 August 2012 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Student, if you are not pregnant, then abortion is not a choice for you.  If you wish to influence women who are pregnant not to abort because it is a horrendous act, I suggest that you do so with the utmost respect and supportiveness for those who may be facing that choice.  It is simply not up to anyone other than the prospective mother to determine whether her choice is right or wrong.  Her body - her choice.

Thus if you personally feel bad about abortions, your efforts should not be toward telling prospective mothers that abortion is good or evil, or right or wrong.  I would suggest that your efforts be toward changing the underlying contingencies that lead individuals to choose to abort.

For example, if everyone had access and the good sense to use effective methods of contraceptives, there would be fewer unwanted pregnancies.  If everyone had adequate economic means to have and raise every child that comes from pregnancy, there would be fewer abortions.

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Posted: 12 August 2012 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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student - 12 August 2012 06:21 AM

What percentage of abortions are because of heads or arms growing out of a conjoined twin?

  Come on, Student.  That’s a critical thinking fallacy type of argument.  Asanta was just giving some examples where abortion seemed the only choice.  If you’re that interested, I suggest you search the Internet to make an extremely complete list of all the reasons that have been used as the basis for an abortion.  Then list the percent of abortions perfomed based on each of those reasons.  After you’d done that, we can discuss which of them are justifiable and which are not.

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Posted: 12 August 2012 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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student - 12 August 2012 06:21 AM

What percentage of abortions are because of heads or arms growing out of a conjoined twin?

student

No, I am NOT talking about abortion. I am talking about killing these ‘babies’ AFTER they are born. The partial humans are humans nevertheless. Do you object to chopping of a leg found to be growing out of an infant’s back AFTER it is born? What about an entire head? Yes, it happens. Yes, it is a separate living infant, but no one seems to mind when they remove those parasitic infants growing from their twins.

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Posted: 12 August 2012 06:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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I knew that’s what you were saying, Asanta, but I had to answer his “argument”.  smile

Although, they aren’t always negative.  A chemist I worked with had a kidney problem when he was in his 60s.  They figured they’d have to remove the defective one, and found that he had an absorbed twin with only the kidneys left.  After the removed the failing one he was left with only three.  We then realized why, for many years, he had an enormous capacity for drinking beer. LOL

Occam

[ Edited: 12 August 2012 06:09 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 12 August 2012 07:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Occam. - 12 August 2012 06:06 PM

I knew that’s what you were saying, Asanta, but I had to answer his “argument”.  smile

Although, they aren’t always negative.  A chemist I worked with had a kidney problem when he was in his 60s.  They figured they’d have to remove the defective one, and found that he had an absorbed twin with only the kidneys left.  After the removed the failing one he was left with only three.  We then realized why, for many years, he had an enormous capacity for drinking beer. LOL

Occam

Post birth abortion of his twin! MURDERER!!  tongue laugh

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Posted: 12 August 2012 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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TimB:

You said I should use the utmost respect and supportiveness. It is hard to imagine I am influencing any women.

In case anyone is looking to CFI for directions or therapy, I am not a good source. You must have better sources than CFI. In case someone is offended, there is no intent to hinder your therapy.

asanta:

You asked if I object to chopping off a leg or entire head found to be growing out of an infant’s back AFTER it is born? With some assumptions, the answer is no. Any of these examples on the internet?

student

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Posted: 12 August 2012 08:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Yes, Google “Parasitic Twin”.

Abby and Brittanny are very rare ‘fused’ twins. You could not separate them without killing both, and the second has her own heart, thus she does no tax her twin, enabling both to survive. They are probably the rarest type of conjoined twin, and are usually stillborn.

[ Edited: 12 August 2012 09:28 PM by asanta ]
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Posted: 12 August 2012 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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student - 12 August 2012 07:21 PM

TimB:

You said I should use the utmost respect and supportiveness. It is hard to imagine I am influencing any women.

In case anyone is looking to CFI for directions or therapy, I am not a good source. You must have better sources than CFI. In case someone is offended, there is no intent to hinder your therapy.

/quote]

Perhaps I over-assumed your motivations for your questions. 

Yes, I also doubt that you are influencing any women.  Occasionally I see person (almost always males) on the side of a busy street, holding large poster pictures of aborted fetuses.  Clearly they are motivated to portray abprtion as murder and to influence women by shame and guilt in to not having an abortion and to motivate the larger society to take the choice away from the prospective mothers.  If you are not a person who would do such a thing, then I sincerely apologize for my poor discrimination.

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Posted: 13 August 2012 08:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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TimB:

I was dissappointed in how quickly you agreed on my incompetence to influence women. Have we met before?
Next time, feel free to put up more of an argument.

As far as apologizing for poor discrimination, what ever for? My obnoxious behavior is only tempered by my lazyness. That is why CFI is such a great alternative.

asanta:

Thank you for the Google suggestion.

Getting back to the blog’s title question, do (later term) abortions anesthetize the pre born?

student

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Posted: 13 August 2012 07:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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student - 13 August 2012 08:13 AM

Getting back to the blog’s title question, do (later term) abortions anesthetize the pre born?

student

Are you expecting something different from the last answer you received? Look back through the thread, that question has already been answered.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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student - 13 August 2012 08:13 AM

TimB:

I was dissappointed in how quickly you agreed on my incompetence to influence women. Have we met before?
Next time, feel free to put up more of an argument.

As far as apologizing for poor discrimination, what ever for? My obnoxious behavior is only tempered by my lazyness. That is why CFI is such a great alternative.


student


Clever reply.  Your self-deprecation would also be a tempering quality, except for using it to make an apparent dig at CFI. (Not that I am totally against the occasional obnoxious behavior, when warranted.)

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Posted: 14 August 2012 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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asanta:

You said that question has already been answered. Which thread contribution number are you referring to?

TimB:

You mentioned my apparent dig at CFI. I have no dig against CFI and so far no dig against CFI contributors with one possible exception.

student

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Posted: 14 August 2012 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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student - 14 August 2012 07:47 AM

asanta:

You said that question has already been answered. Which thread contribution number are you referring to?

That would be post #2. Right after your first question, asking essentially the same thing.

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