“Writer Caitlin Moran believes most women who don’t want to be called feminists don’t really understand what feminism is. In her book How to Be a Woman, Moran poses these questions to women who are hesitant to identify as feminists:
What part of liberation for women is not for you? Is it the freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man that you marry? The campaign for equal pay? Vogue by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that stuff just get on your nerves?”
Well, I flunked on the first question. . .
. . . still it’s nice listening in on the conversation
I thought it was good interview, now that I’ve listen to all of it, and I recommend it ~ beyond that I had some things written… but jeez they seem a tad presumptuous, so gordbless delete and I’ll just sit back down.
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The label ‘feminist’ is a lot like ‘atheist’ in a way ~ both are simple adjectives used to describe something/someone objectively, but they’re also ‘personal labels’ that people choose for themselves or eschew (because of negative baggage or whatever reason).......
Some people fit the definition of atheist or feminist whether or not they personally choose to attach that label to themselves.
Needless to say, this can cause some problems, especially (i have found) when you point this out to them ;)
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The label ‘feminist’ is a lot like ‘atheist’ in a way ~ both are simple adjectives used to describe something/someone objectively, but they’re also ‘personal labels’ that people choose for themselves or eschew (because of negative baggage or whatever reason).......
Some people fit the definition of atheist or feminist whether or not they personally choose to attach that label to themselves.
Needless to say, this can cause some problems, especially (i have found) when you point this out to them
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I don’t see it like that at all. A feminist is more like a new atheist, not atheist. The objective of feminists and new atheists is, IMO, to annoy others around them with their beliefs. It’s kind of like being a vegetarian because you don’t eat meat vs. a vegetarian who keeps reminding you that eating animals is wrong.
IOW, Robinson Crusoe could have been an atheist or a vegetarian when he was by himself on the island. But once he found Friday, only then could he have turned into a new atheist, an annoying vegetarian, or were Crusoe a woman, a feminist.
Is she saying Men can’t be feminists? How sexist is that?
IMO, a feminist is anyone who stands up for the rights of women as human beings, women who participate in non-traditional sports, believes women should make the final decisions in their health care, not someone else, allows women to have the final say in what they do or do not do in life, and/or believes they should have control of their own bodies. They do not need to be or do all these things, like participate in non-traditional sports, but the bottom line is that the person, who considers themselves a feminist, allow all women to make these decisions for themselves, not someone else forcing them to make traditional choices or be forced to have a man decide for them. For example, I love dancing and skating, but said woman weightlifter (I forgot her name) probably does not, but because we believe in freedom of choice, we are feminists. Like wise, a man who insists a woman has the right to make the final decisions about things that concern her life, her body, etc are feminists. Being a woman helps and is obviously a plus, but it is not a necessity to be a feminist and is not the end all or be all in the definition of a feminist. However, being female makes one feminine, but some males can be effeminate or even have a feminine side to them.
“Feminist” has become a curse-word in some parts of society, which is a shame, as far as we dont have gender equality*, feminism is an important topic.
Unfortunately we have some strange people who call themself( and are seen as) feminists, and which damage the image of the whole movement, like Sally Miller Gaerhart who wants to get rid of 90% of the male population, Andrea Dworkin who thinks that every form of sex is humilating for women, Mary Daly who wanted matriarchy etc.
If they count as feminists i am really worried.
*I dont want to push everyone in an unisex-mold and get a boring pc world, i just want everyone to have the same opportunities.
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The label ‘feminist’ is a lot like ‘atheist’ in a way ~ both are simple adjectives used to describe something/someone objectively, but they’re also ‘personal labels’ that people choose for themselves or eschew (because of negative baggage or whatever reason).......
Some people fit the definition of atheist or feminist whether or not they personally choose to attach that label to themselves.
Needless to say, this can cause some problems, especially (i have found) when you point this out to them ;)
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I don’t see it like that at all. A feminist is more like a new atheist, not atheist. The objective of feminists and new atheists is, IMO, to annoy others around them with their beliefs. It’s kind of like being a vegetarian because you don’t eat meat vs. a vegetarian who keeps reminding you that eating animals is wrong.
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Then, with all due respect, you be mistaken, George :) It’s quite simple, if a person believes in “the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes”, one can validly say that that person holds a feminist position (whether they like it or not). The application of the adjective isn’t somehow dependent on the person in question accepting this assessement. It’s a word that has had that definition from dot and if it accurately fits someone’s position, it fits. But having said that, because it is also seen as a ‘personal label’ in addition to being a simple adjective, I would never advocate forcing anyone to call themselves a feminist. But that doesn’t change the fact that they may fit the definition of one.
The same is true for the standalone word ‘atheist’. I think many of us here know or have interacted with people who refuse to call themselves an atheist because the word inspires such an extreme reaction in some others ~ but that has nothing to do with whether or not their position aligns with the definition of atheism.
This “to annoy others around them” bit is merely your perception, but perception doesn’t = an accurate judgement of others’ intent, and it certainly isn’t any kind of ‘essential’ part of the definition of the words. There are extreme, strident and perhaps even militant factions of every “ism”, but they’re just that…a faction. And factions of bigger wholes don’t generally generate/determine what the basic definition of the larger whole is.
A person who doesn’t eat meat, and a person who doesn’t eat meat and tells others it’s wrong to do so both fit the definition of ‘vegetarian’. You may want to apply some additional adjective to the latter, but the simple definition is still what it is and includes both types.
I’m a feminist, and I can assure you that my objective as such isn’t to “annoy others around me with my beliefs”......though, I’m sure that happens with some, it’s just not my ‘objective’ :) but hey, I’ve encountered meat eaters who literally became incensed when they merely discovered that I was a vegetarian, without me even uttering a word about it, much less proselytzing. With such people, the bar for what constitutes “annoying” is apparently much lower than it is for others ;)
Unfortunately we have some strange people who call themself( and are seen as) feminists, and which damage the image of the whole movement…..
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And once again, the point about there being a strong similarity to atheism holds true here…...
Uh, S.E.Cupp, anyone? *rolling eyes* Some atheists desperately want to distance themselves from P.Z. Myers and his ‘shenanigans’ too…...this, unfortunately is one of the BIG downsides to belonging to any group ~ there will be other members that you’ll want to thwap because you feel they embarrass or give a bad name to the entire group.
One contributing factor to me becoming a misanthropic hermit! ;)
“Feminist” has become a curse-word in some parts of society, which is a shame, as far as we dont have gender equality*, feminism is an important topic.
Unfortunately we have some strange people who call themself( and are seen as) feminists, and which damage the image of the whole movement, like Sally Miller Gaerhart who wants to get rid of 90% of the male population, Andrea Dworkin who thinks that every form of sex is humilating for women, Mary Daly who wanted matriarchy etc.
If they count as feminists i am really worried.
*I dont want to push everyone in an unisex-mold and get a boring pc world, i just want everyone to have the same opportunities.
Remember however, that Dworkin and her ilk are not held in much regard by most regular women; even other radical feminists were critical of her. If anything, Dworkin’s activism was probably geared more towards Lesbian issues then anything else.
I flunked on the first question. . . 
