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The Republican Ticket - to a Far Right Wing America
Posted: 13 August 2012 03:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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TimB - 12 August 2012 10:12 PM
Pragmatic Naturalist - 12 August 2012 03:39 PM

Paul Ryan’s father died when he was young—still in high school.  As a result he received social security surivor benefits from the government.  He used those funds to go to college (Miami of Ohio).  Like his favorite “philosopher,” Ayn Rand, who also received government benefits in the form of medicare (while she was dieing of cancer as a result of her use of amphetamines and cigarettes), Ryan believes that the poor and the working class should not benefit from the “hard work” of the rich, “producing” class.  Thus his ideology leads him to propose policies that would effectively dismantle the social safety net.  Yet, he would likely not have acheived the success he has were it not for the benefit of that exact same social safety net that he now proposes to dismantle.  Anyone else find this hipocritical?

I was able to get an undergraduate degree by virtue of the GI Bill due to my dad being a totally disabled veteran of WWII.  (I worked my way through grad school.) I chose to spend my working life in one of the “helping fields” rather than a “money accumulating field” such as Romney or Ryan, for that matter. I have paid my share of taxes. I know that government programs can work.  I don’t see how Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand could not see that.  So for them, I guess money accumulation is/was a more powerful motivator than social responsibility.

What ethical reason was there for you, the son of a disabled vet, to receive gov. assistance? You were not disabled.

  You could be easily branded as a parasite off your fathers misery.

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Posted: 13 August 2012 03:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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TimB - 12 August 2012 10:12 PM

I chose to spend my working life in one of the “helping fields” rather than a “money accumulating field” such as Romney or Ryan, for that matter. I have paid my share of taxes. I know that government programs can work.  I don’t see how Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand could not see that.  So for them, I guess money accumulation is/was a more powerful motivator than social responsibility.

Laughable.

The people who have nothing to complain about are always the ones to bitch about social responsibility.

Guilty white liberal. angry

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Posted: 13 August 2012 05:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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mid atlantic - 13 August 2012 03:37 AM
TimB - 12 August 2012 10:12 PM

I chose to spend my working life in one of the “helping fields” rather than a “money accumulating field” such as Romney or Ryan, for that matter. I have paid my share of taxes. I know that government programs can work.  I don’t see how Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand could not see that.  So for them, I guess money accumulation is/was a more powerful motivator than social responsibility.

Laughable.

The people who have nothing to complain about are always the ones to bitch about social responsibility.

Guilty white liberal. angry

Ayn Rand, Ryan, and Romney tick me off big time.  I am a white liberal who has plenty to complain about and I start with the Republican Party, esp with their attitudes about women and the poor.  I think money is the root of all evil and we need to change the financial system so that there is not a huge gap between the 1% and the 99%.  I am not a rich liberal and really could care less about money, but unfortunately our current system runs on it, esp in a way that makes more money for the rich and makes everyone else poorer.  I am for socialized medicine, Medicare, etc etc, as well as a new economic system.  As a woman, who happens to be liberal, I have a lot to complain about, as well as a lot of things to do, with very little to show for it all.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 13 August 2012 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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One does not require guilt in order to feel compassion for the less fortunate among us.

And with power always comes moral responsibility.

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Posted: 13 August 2012 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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dougsmith - 13 August 2012 06:23 AM

One does not require guilt in order to feel compassion for the less fortunate among us.

And with power always comes moral responsibility.

Heh, heh. At least that’s the way the “old lights” used to justify their superior position over the licentious masses.  Crumbs thrown down from on high.  Benevolence and wonderfully intricate method of status and resource control.

We positively require-not guilt- but force and strong government to enforce “compassion” for the less fortunate. Not compassion really though…more like equalizing ownership of labor and natural resources.

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Posted: 13 August 2012 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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I think all of you guys are off base (and I used to be too).  There are forces at work in the US to keep it that way.  Obama is the chosen one for large corporations and monied interests.  For chrissake he blatantly admits that his programs are Republican ideas.  The way it works is, clowns like Palin and Ryan are put on the Repub ticket.  They’re SO nuts that it basically forces otherwise skeptical liberals to support Obama, i.e. a Republican, all the while thinking they’re fighting *against* those crazy right wingers. Net effect is to get Republican mainstream ideas implemented.  Think of the absolute freakshow that was the Repub primaries. A bunch of rich folks, like the Koch brothers, were sitting there laughing their asses off at how Dems and Repubs alike took these nuts for actual contenders. It was a show folks. The real Republican, Obama, will get re-elected and continue his Repub policies (with a few token Dem things thrown in).

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Posted: 13 August 2012 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I usually hate conspiracy theories because they’re so dumb.  I worry about yours CJ, because there’s a small probability that it’s correct.  downer

Occam

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Posted: 13 August 2012 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I think all of you guys are off base (and I used to be too).  There are forces at work in the US to keep it that way.  Obama is the chosen one for large corporations and monied interests.  For chrissake he blatantly admits that his programs are Republican ideas.  The way it works is, clowns like Palin and Ryan are put on the Repub ticket.  They’re SO nuts that it basically forces otherwise skeptical liberals to support Obama, i.e. a Republican, all the while thinking they’re fighting *against* those crazy right wingers. Net effect is to get Republican mainstream ideas implemented.  Think of the absolute freakshow that was the Repub primaries. A bunch of rich folks, like the Koch brothers, were sitting there laughing their asses off at how Dems and Repubs alike took these nuts for actual contenders. It was a show folks. The real Republican, Obama, will get re-elected and continue his Repub policies (with a few token Dem things thrown in).


Think about this for a minute though, do you really think that the Dems OR the reps would still be in power if say one of them (ok I’ll admit it, the dems) would advocate what Mriana posted? Socialized medicine? That’s the death knell for a politician and poison for The Pres. During an election year. Let’s face it folks, both parties are essentially centrist and always have been. That’s the only way the voters will accept them to rule over us. I don’t mean that we should settle for anything that comes from the fertile minds of our congressmen but you’ll likely never see in our lifetime an atheist, secular humanist, socialist president or congressional majority.

Plus, being tied to capitalism doesn’t give us much wiggle room as everyone and I mean everyone is plugged into the system and with the military married to industry, fomenting some sort of a revolution (or even an evolution away from) to violently destroy the system and create equality for all is going to be next to impossible at this stage. In short, as pogo used to say, ” we have met the enemy and they is us”.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 13 August 2012 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 13 August 2012 11:14 AM

Think about this for a minute though, do you really think that the Dems OR the reps would still be in power if say one of them (ok I’ll admit it, the dems) would advocate what Mriana posted? Socialized medicine? That’s the death knell for a politician and poison for The Pres. During an election year. Let’s face it folks, both parties are essentially centrist and always have been. That’s the only way the voters will accept them to rule over us. I don’t mean that we should settle for anything that comes from the fertile minds of our congressmen but you’ll likely never see in our lifetime an atheist, secular humanist, socialist president or congressional majority.

Plus, being tied to capitalism doesn’t give us much wiggle room as everyone and I mean everyone is plugged into the system and with the military married to industry, fomenting some sort of a revolution (or even an evolution away from) to violently destroy the system and create equality for all is going to be next to impossible at this stage. In short, as pogo used to say, ” we have met the enemy and they is us”.


Cap’t Jack

I wish I could remember where I read this (might have been a Newsweek article…), but the claim was that there are many expensive ‘toys’ that the military doesn’t actually want. However, the congress critter from the state where the expensive toy is manufactured pushes to get it approved. Jobs are saved, politician gets re-elected. Endless loop.  confused

Take care,

Derek

[ Edited: 13 August 2012 05:38 PM by harry canyon ]
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Posted: 13 August 2012 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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For some more background on Ryan, Fresh Air‘s Terry Gross does it again with a fine interview with Ryan Lizza who has spent a good deal of time getting to know Ryan.  Notice the date of this worth listening to interview:

How Congressman Paul Ryan Is Shaping The GOP
August 1, 2012

As the presumptive presidential nominee, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is currently the face of the Republican Party. But, as journalist Ryan Lizza suggests in his article in this week’s New Yorker, the party’s agenda and ideology are being driven by a very different figure: Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

Since taking office in 1999, Ryan has advocated at different times for the end of Medicare and Medicaid, and the partial privatization of Social Security.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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mid atlantic - 13 August 2012 03:25 AM
TimB - 12 August 2012 10:12 PM
Pragmatic Naturalist - 12 August 2012 03:39 PM

Paul Ryan’s father died when he was young—still in high school.  As a result he received social security surivor benefits from the government.  He used those funds to go to college (Miami of Ohio).  Like his favorite “philosopher,” Ayn Rand, who also received government benefits in the form of medicare (while she was dieing of cancer as a result of her use of amphetamines and cigarettes), Ryan believes that the poor and the working class should not benefit from the “hard work” of the rich, “producing” class.  Thus his ideology leads him to propose policies that would effectively dismantle the social safety net.  Yet, he would likely not have acheived the success he has were it not for the benefit of that exact same social safety net that he now proposes to dismantle.  Anyone else find this hipocritical?

I was able to get an undergraduate degree by virtue of the GI Bill due to my dad being a totally disabled veteran of WWII.  (I worked my way through grad school.) I chose to spend my working life in one of the “helping fields” rather than a “money accumulating field” such as Romney or Ryan, for that matter. I have paid my share of taxes. I know that government programs can work.  I don’t see how Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand could not see that.  So for them, I guess money accumulation is/was a more powerful motivator than social responsibility.

What ethical reason was there for you, the son of a disabled vet, to receive gov. assistance? You were not disabled.

  You could be easily branded as a parasite off your fathers misery.

Wow, that’s a pretty stilted perspective.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Occam. - 13 August 2012 10:52 AM

I usually hate conspiracy theories because they’re so dumb.  I worry about yours CJ, because there’s a small probability that it’s correct.  downer

Occam

Well, we should find out, if and when Obama has a 2nd term.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 13 August 2012 11:14 AM

I think all of you guys are off base (and I used to be too).  There are forces at work in the US to keep it that way.  Obama is the chosen one for large corporations and monied interests.  For chrissake he blatantly admits that his programs are Republican ideas.  The way it works is, clowns like Palin and Ryan are put on the Repub ticket.  They’re SO nuts that it basically forces otherwise skeptical liberals to support Obama, i.e. a Republican, all the while thinking they’re fighting *against* those crazy right wingers. Net effect is to get Republican mainstream ideas implemented.  Think of the absolute freakshow that was the Repub primaries. A bunch of rich folks, like the Koch brothers, were sitting there laughing their asses off at how Dems and Repubs alike took these nuts for actual contenders. It was a show folks. The real Republican, Obama, will get re-elected and continue his Repub policies (with a few token Dem things thrown in).


Think about this for a minute though, do you really think that the Dems OR the reps would still be in power if say one of them (ok I’ll admit it, the dems) would advocate what Mriana posted? Socialized medicine? That’s the death knell for a politician and poison for The Pres. During an election year. Let’s face it folks, both parties are essentially centrist and always have been. That’s the only way the voters will accept them to rule over us. I don’t mean that we should settle for anything that comes from the fertile minds of our congressmen but you’ll likely never see in our lifetime an atheist, secular humanist, socialist president or congressional majority.

Plus, being tied to capitalism doesn’t give us much wiggle room as everyone and I mean everyone is plugged into the system and with the military married to industry, fomenting some sort of a revolution (or even an evolution away from) to violently destroy the system and create equality for all is going to be next to impossible at this stage. In short, as pogo used to say, ” we have met the enemy and they is us”.


Cap’t Jack

I agree with much of what you say here, except that the Republican Party is no longer essentially centrist, in that their ideology has become more rigid, simplistic and extreme.

Re: your thoughts about the military making revolution impossible, I agree with that too, unless things get bad enough for the military to divide and take part in a revolution.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 02:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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dougsmith - 13 August 2012 06:23 AM

One does not require guilt in order to feel compassion for the less fortunate among us.

And with power always comes moral responsibility.

There you go.  It never occurred to me to feel guilty about using GI Bill money to help me thruogh undergrad school.  I felt gratitude and some sense of reponsibility to give back.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 14 August 2012 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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dougsmith - 13 August 2012 06:23 AM

And with power always comes moral responsibility.

Hmmm.  For some people maybe. oh oh

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