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speaking of Global Heat Engine - have you seen the latest Ocean study?
Posted: 19 August 2012 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]
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So while contrarian-skeptics continue foaming at the mouth, the problem, er crisis deepens.
Why is it so difficult to grasp that time keeps moving forward and momentum (particularly on a global scale) can be a bitch?

Human-Induced Ocean Warming Study Addresses The ‘Dominant Role’ Of People

The Huffington Post |  By Joanna Zelman Posted: 06/11/2012

Despite the onslaught of politicians attempting to project an air of question around man-made climate change, studies continue to emerge proving the connection between human actions and our changing environment. The most recent study, published in Nature Climate Change, finds an “anthropogenic fingerprint” (human influence) on our warming oceans.

The study, “Human-Induced Global Ocean Warming On Multidecadal Timescales,” was conducted by researchers in the U.S., Australia, Japan and India. Based on observations of rising upper-ocean temperatures, the researchers used improved estimates of ocean temperatures to examine the causes of our warming ocean.

According to a Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory press release, the study shows that over the past 50 years, observed ocean warming is explained only when greenhouse gas increases are included in the models.

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Posted: 20 August 2012 06:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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People are starting to wake up, even as politicians continue spreading energy company propaganda. I expect the politicians…. Hell, let’s be honest here. The Republicans are fighting science… I expect the Republican sycophants will push back even harder as more people realize climate scientists know what they are talking about and we need to do everything we can to reduce our carbon emissions.

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Posted: 20 August 2012 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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DarronS - 20 August 2012 06:57 AM

...we need to do everything we can to reduce our carbon emissions.

Compost Republicans?

psik

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Posted: 20 August 2012 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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DarronS - 20 August 2012 06:57 AM

People are starting to wake up, even as politicians continue spreading energy company propaganda. I expect the politicians…. Hell, let’s be honest here. The Republicans are fighting science… I expect the Republican sycophants will push back even harder as more people realize climate scientists know what they are talking about and we need to do everything we can to reduce our carbon emissions.

I don’t think that reducing emissions is going to be nearly enough.  I expect one day to hear scientists announce that we need to reduce the CO2 in our atmosphere to the levels it was at before the start of the Industrial Revolution.

I also think that before we embark on massive geoengineering projects we should begin terraforming Mars, so we have a better idea of how such things work.  That way, if it turns out minor changes to things like CO2 levels have a big impact, we’ve only screwed up a dead planet.

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Posted: 20 August 2012 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Coldheart Tucker - 20 August 2012 10:01 AM

I also think that before we embark on massive geoengineering projects we should begin terraforming Mars, so we have a better idea of how such things work.  That way, if it turns out minor changes to things like CO2 levels have a big impact, we’ve only screwed up a dead planet.

I really do hope you are kidding.

By the time we have any effect on terraforming Mars it will be all over here.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 05:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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psikeyhackr - 20 August 2012 09:16 AM
DarronS - 20 August 2012 06:57 AM

...we need to do everything we can to reduce our carbon emissions.

Compost Republicans?

psik

Good one.  cheese

And you’re right about terraforming Mars. It would take tens of thousands of years and probably would not succeed. Mars has no magnetic field to protect its atmosphere from radiation and solar wind, which makes the terraforming idea moot.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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It’s funny about terra-forming. Like many of you I grew up reading a lot of science fiction and had always thought it would be a very simple thing. Add some oxygen and H20 and tweak a few things and, viola, Earth II. Turns out it’s a lot more complicated than that.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Just now saw this: Scientists want to test geohacking solution to global warming right now

According to theory (and computer models), seeding marine stratocumulus clouds with copious amounts of tiny sea water particles could significantly enhance cloud droplet number concentration, and thereby cloud reflectivity and longevity. Assuming that this could be done on a large scale, the result would be a cooling effect.

Wow. Even if this could work, it would take decades (you would think) to fully test and then deploy on a large scale. Then you have to worry about unintended consequences. I would rather see the effort going into reducing the damage being done. But who knows, maybe this is our future.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I’d worry that it might change the pattern of rainfall.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Occam. - 21 August 2012 12:00 PM

I’d worry that it might change the pattern of rainfall.

Yeah, not to mention killing business for the cruise ship industry. Who wants to cruise the cloudy Caribbean?  LOL

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Posted: 21 August 2012 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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DarronS - 21 August 2012 05:10 AM
psikeyhackr - 20 August 2012 09:16 AM
DarronS - 20 August 2012 06:57 AM

...we need to do everything we can to reduce our carbon emissions.

Compost Republicans?

psik

Good one.  cheese

And you’re right about terraforming Mars. It would take tens of thousands of years and probably would not succeed. Mars has no magnetic field to protect its atmosphere from radiation and solar wind, which makes the terraforming idea moot.

It would take tens of thousands of years to give Mars an Earth-like atmosphere (and roughly the same amount of time for Mars to lose it).  However, the data generated during the process of terraforming would be invaluable.  We would learn very important things like: How long does it take for the climate to change if you alter the levels of CO2 by 10%?  What are the potential “knock on” effects of such a change?  How long does it take for them to occur?  And what happens as oceans form?  We’d also know if geoengineering actually, you know, works in the manner we expect it to.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Coldheart, the conditions on Mars a quite different than the conditions on earth. Aside from receiving far less heat energy from the Sun there is no freestanding water on Mars, and not enough on or in the planet to create oceans. And, as I mentioned earlier, Mars has no electromagnetic field to shield it from cosmic rays and solar wind. Any water molecules in Mars’ upper atmosphere will be ripped apart into hydrogen and oxygen, with the heavier oxygen molecules falling to the surface and the hydrogen being blown away by the solar wind. If we recreate any planetary condition on Mars we’ll see something more similar to Venus than to Earth.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Funny, a number of respected scientists, like Carl Sagan, seem to think that it can be done.  In any case, its better we muck around on Mars, trying to figure what geoengineering can do, than mucking around on the Earth, trying to figure it out.  After all, if we screw up Mars, few people are going to die.  If we screw up the Earth, everybody could die.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Coldheart Tucker - 21 August 2012 03:15 PM

Funny, a number of respected scientists, like Carl Sagan, seem to think that it can be done.  In any case, its better we muck around on Mars, trying to figure what geoengineering can do, than mucking around on the Earth, trying to figure it out.  After all, if we screw up Mars, few people are going to die.  If we screw up the Earth, everybody could die.

Carl Sagan died before we figured out what caused water loss on Venus.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Sagan’s not the only one.  Just the most well known.  Zubrin mentions others in his books on the subject of exploring space.  In any case, the loss of hydrogen won’t be a hugely rapid process and can be compensated for, eventually, by dumping comets into the Martian atmosphere.

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Posted: 21 August 2012 05:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Coldheart Tucker - 21 August 2012 03:15 PM

Funny, a number of respected scientists, like Carl Sagan, seem to think that it can be done.  In any case, its better we muck around on Mars, trying to figure what geoengineering can do, than mucking around on the Earth, trying to figure it out.  After all, if we screw up Mars, few people are going to die.  If we screw up the Earth, everybody could die.

Just because it can be done does not mean it can be done in time to be a useful example for anything on Earth.

My personal suspicion is we have already gone beyond what should have been done.  The problem is undoing it.

Some people are finally thinking it may be getting to hot.  DUH!  Nice summer we just had.  Is there going to be any corn.  Complaints about the Mississippi being low.  When have we ever heard that?  I remembered it vaguely.  Last time was 1988, so it could be argued it is a random event.  When was the last record low?

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