my testimony
Posted: 12 December 2006 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]
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You can access my testimony through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

Because my testimony is helping so many people, I am posting it here so it will stay on your front page for awhile if that’s ok with you. The many entries in my guest book that is accessible towards the bottom of the front page on my site, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, show that the content of my testimony is helping many people.
http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/
(nothing for sale on this site)
MY TESTIMONY


The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn’t find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me.
In 1966, at age 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.
Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I learned that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself.
Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry, I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem I had even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel for themselves, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.
Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it.
Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild: "The majority don’t agree with you so you must be wrong", to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally".
Most are somewhere in between these remarks. But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to stop me from sharing the good news that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.
A website that answers all the arguments that seem to support the idea that the Bible teaches endless suffering in hell is TENTMAKER. Although forum rules prevent me from posting forum links, you can easily Google it up. The ¤scholar╠s cornerË under ¤researchË deals with every aspect of the subject. The more than 600 page search engine at the top of this same TENTMAKER front page is also very comprehensive regarding this subject. Just type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage, and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilation doctrines.
I am also going to guide you all to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

Or, you can also Google up ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE

You can access my testimony through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.
It may well be that a few members of this form or surfers will be able to benefit from the testimonies of Charles and myself.
May God’s blessing rest with your spirit!
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
¤That God may be All in allË 1Cor.15:28

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Posted: 12 December 2006 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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what I wish I had known during my youth

My name is Rodger Tutt. I am 68 years old. I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) Bible teaches.

You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt, or
My website is http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.
BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION, THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/index.html
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ChristTriumphant.htm
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
4. THE ORIGON AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT, Thomas Thayer
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE, Dr. Loyal Hurley
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/infinitegrace.htm 
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN “HELL” - J. Preston Eby
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/hell.htm
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION, John Bovee Dods
http://www.tentmaker.org/Bovee2.htm#Top
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, Andrew Jukes
http://www.tentmaker.org/restitutionindex.htm
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND, Erasmus Manford
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/150reasons.html
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS, J. Patching
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichManandLazarus-Patching.html
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT, Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/GatesOfHell.html
13. AION, AIONIOS, John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED, John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter16.html
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL, John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY, James Webb
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE, James Coram
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

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Posted: 12 December 2006 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Check this out, Roger. I don’t think it’s anywhere near being clear that the Bible is a book of peace, or that the god of the Bible is anything more than a tyrant. The particular issue of hell is really a sidelight. One doesn’t need to believe in hell to see that the god of the Bible is no prince of peace.

What you seem to be doing is the classic one of cherry picking those parts of the Bible that fit with your preconceptions of what you believe god should be like, rather than how he is actually portrayed within its covers.

But if that’s your general program, what on earth are you still doing reading the Bible at all? It is clearly a fallible document, replete with error.

It seems that your psychological problems may have been avoided quite simply by dispensing with torturous (and at base mendacious) attempts to justify the Biblical account of god.

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Posted: 15 December 2006 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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My perception of God

Hi Doug. My perception of God is that He is eventually going to transform all of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.

In other words, looking back from what the Bible refers to as the consummation of God’s plan for the ages of time (Ephesians 1:10), we will see that it was better for everyone that all the suffering occured than if it had not occured.

The Biblical reason I have for thinking that way is because God is love, and He is able to do above what we can think.
And I can think pretty high! grin

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Posted: 15 December 2006 01:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Re: My perception of God

[quote author=“rodgertutt”]Hi Doug. My perception of God is that He is eventually going to transform all of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.

In other words, looking back from what the Bible refers to as the consummation of God’s plan for the ages of time (Ephesians 1:10), we will see that it was better for everyone that all the suffering occured than if it had not occured.

The Biblical reason I have for thinking that way is because God is love, and He is able to do above what we can think.
And I can think pretty high! grin

There is no evidence that all of the suffering on earth is done for some end. To what end was the suffering of the tsunami victims, or the victims of Katrina, or of Vesuvius, or a million other natural disasters? To what end are the evils that people perpetrate on each other? To what end are illnesses that kill children?

And the notion that “god is love” doesn’t come from the Bible, I’m afraid. Or at least it doesn’t come from the parts of the Bible I linked to, above. That god is a monster.

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Posted: 15 December 2006 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Re: My perception of God

[quote author=“rodgertutt”]My perception of God is that He is eventually going to transform all of everyone’s suffering into something better that it happened.

The key word is “eventually”, meaning after we are all dead!  I suppose that if you believe in God at all, you have to believe that he’s “eventually” going to set things straight, but what about those of us who don’t even believe he exists?  He’s going to save us, too?  Cool!

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Posted: 15 December 2006 03:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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God is love, and He is able to do above what we can think

I don’t really find this amusing anymore. It was somehow okay five hundred years ago, but not anymore. Have you seen Al Gore’s An Inconvenient Truth? Is your god going to lower the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere? Or is he, once again, going to make humanity suffer so that we will see that it was better for everyone that all the suffering occured than if it had not occured?

Next time you get confined to your bed with a nervous breakdown, get proper medical attention. In the meantime, stop spreading this nonsense.

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Posted: 18 December 2006 02:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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nonesense?

What you call “nonesense” George is what is helping many people recover from nervous breakdown symptoms. I think “the proof of the pudding is in the eating” as they say. If it doesn’t help you then just leave it alone George and move on.

See the more than six dozen messages in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my forum’s front page at

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and also see the tentmaker’s testimony board at

http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm

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Posted: 18 December 2006 03:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Religion helps to deal with nervous breakdowns as fascism helped to deal with the Great Depression in Germany in the 1930’s. These are temporary solutions, admired by some, disastrous for the rest.

I was thinking about comparing the placebo effect of religion with taking M&M’s candy for a headache (which sometimes works!, all you need is FAITH, believing that the M&M’s candy is Tylenol). But religion is not a candy. I could have called it something much worse than “nonsense.” I was just being nice…

I did visit the websites you recommended. Now, in return, I’ll ask you to visit the oncology department at the Sick Kids in Toronto on University Avenue. Are you afraid of hell? You’ll find it there. It must be the most terrifying place I have ever visited in my life. Go, take a look, and tell your god to stop by. In the meantime, we’ll have to rely on science. I am very upset now, I’ll better stop…

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Posted: 18 December 2006 04:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Re: nonesense?

[quote author=“rodgertutt”]What you call “nonesense” George is what is helping many people recover from nervous breakdown symptoms. I think “the proof of the pudding is in the eating” as they say. If it doesn’t help you then just leave it alone George and move on.

Rodger i think if you never believed in god you wouldn’t of had a nervous breakdown because you stressed to much over the idea of God. How about you feed poor africans or help cure aids instead of trying to convince others that God will eventually make everything better?

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Fighting the evil belief that there is a god(s).

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Posted: 21 December 2006 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Good point, theatheisticheretic.  I think that dealing with the inconsistency “He (God) can do anything, then why all this suffering?” which then led to the “realization” after years of nervous breakdown that it must be part of His plan (sure solves the cognitive dissonance part) could have not happened if there were no inconsistent belief system to overcome or amend.  Suffering happens.  We can work to alleviate and avoid it.  When a child dies at 7 of some horrible illness, or malnutrition, your thinking that she’ll at least go to Cotton Candy Land and be happy doesn’t help her, or help the next child.

But a nervous breakdown is a terrible thing, and I’m sorry that the fellow went through such a lengthy one.  It doesn’t make God true, or feed the hungry.  If people didn’t have an ingrained belief systems about a loving benevolent God that makes things better, perhaps fewer people would suffer them, rodgertutt?

Debbie

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Posted: 21 December 2006 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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People make excuses for God in precisely the same way that battered spouses make excuses for their batterers.  What He does, He does for our own good.  Either that, or we deserved it.

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