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Are dogs more faithful than humans?
Posted: 15 September 2012 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Note the poignant story of Capitan, below:

http://www.theborneopost.com/2012/09/14/german-shepherd-mix-stands-guard-over-his-masters-grave-for-six-years/

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Posted: 16 September 2012 02:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I don’t know, I haven’t seen many dogs hanging around in cemeteries, I’ve seen a fair number of people though.  On that evidence dogs are far less loyal to their human companions than people.  Faithful seems a funny term to use.  What would constitute “faith” in a dogs brain?

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Posted: 16 September 2012 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Jeciron - 16 September 2012 02:46 AM

I don’t know, I haven’t seen many dogs hanging around in cemeteries, I’ve seen a fair number of people though.  On that evidence dogs are far less loyal to their human companions than people.  Faithful seems a funny term to use.  What would constitute “faith” in a dogs brain?

Mostly, I was just struck by the story. 

I saw the story in spanish, also, and they used the root word “fidel” which prompted me to use the term “faithful”.  Is it similar in this dog, as in humans who choose to believe something without evidence?  Does the dog think or feel that Miguel still exists or will return after spending almost every night for 6 years on his grave?

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Posted: 16 September 2012 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I was being a smartass.  My bad.

I am really fascinated by the cross species connection which can is seen in the quality we call “faithfulness”, particularly in dogs.  I can understand why the story is so moving, but I have no idea of how to explain the behavior of the dog.  And, I was struck by how the term “faithful” can have such a clearly different and, in my opinion, laudable connotation, so I was riffing on that. 

This post puts me in mind of the old line, “Your dog thinks you’re God, your cat thinks you’re the help.”

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Posted: 16 September 2012 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Jeciron - 16 September 2012 05:45 PM

...This post puts me in mind of the old line, “Your dog thinks you’re God, your cat thinks you’re the help.”

Maybe with another 10,000 years of co-evolution, cats could develop more loyalty to humans.  But knowing cats, I would say it is more likely that humans will simply develop more servitude to cats.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I’m pretty sure cats think they’ve peaked.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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There is a movie about a japanese real case, transferred to more modern times and a western context: Hachi: A Dog’s Tale. (Link might not work, search at Wikipedia for the title of the movie)

See also here.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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TimB - 16 September 2012 09:13 PM
Jeciron - 16 September 2012 05:45 PM

...This post puts me in mind of the old line, “Your dog thinks you’re God, your cat thinks you’re the help.”

Maybe with another 10,000 years of co-evolution, cats could develop more loyalty to humans.  But knowing cats, I would say it is more likely that humans will simply develop more servitude to cats.

The thing with cats is that they were selected to live with humans through the discovery of agriculture. Once humans began to store grains, the mice came and along with them the cats. Dogs are different. They came to our fire, attracted by the meat, and had to interact with us since the beginning.

We obviously started to artificially select among the more friendlier cats later on, but for some reason they never made it to the level of friendliness similar to that of the dogs. Why that is, is hard to tell. Maybe they never developed the necessary predisposition for such a behaviour to begin with—one that we could artificially select for—or maybe we were not really interested to turn them into dog-like animals since we already had dogs. Who knows, maybe it was the dogs themselves that didn’t allow for the friendlier candidates among the cats to make that extra step by simply killing those cats that had what it took to get closer (physically and emotionally) to us. I can see that when I go back to a village in the Czech Republic. Most of the cats spend their days on the roofs, fearing to come down to get attacked by a dog, and only make it to the ground during the night.

[ Edited: 17 September 2012 07:40 AM by George ]
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Posted: 17 September 2012 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Or maybe we need to come up with Head Start Programs for the kittens.  cheese

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Posted: 17 September 2012 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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George - 17 September 2012 06:05 AM

Or maybe we need to come up with Head Start Programs for the kittens.  cheese

Yes, that plus a systematic genocide of all kittens who do not show a certain level of obsequiousness to humans.  It may be the only way of preventing cats from replacing us as the dominant species on Earth. cheese

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Posted: 17 September 2012 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Yes, that plus a systematic genocide of all kittens who do not show a certain level of obsequiousness to humans.  It may be the only way of preventing cats from replacing us as the dominant species on Earth.

There isn’t a single person on this forum, well except Mriana, who doeasn’t believe that cats are secretly plotting to take over the World. I mean, Pussy Riot? A simple code for feline domination, and I for one am opposed to this animalistic individualism. It’s patently unpatriotic and will lead to a communist state. You mark my word! Give me a reverent, subservient, dull witted dog any day. Easily led, fed with scraps from my abundant table and thankful to serve me. In short, they know their place and keep it. Damn cats and their skeptic ways anyway. They’re only good for killing the vermiin that feed off our system.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 17 September 2012 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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This is a fun discussion about cats and dogs.. Cats world domination.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Quoting TVA:

They’re only good for killing the vermiin that feed off our system.

and they also kill all sorts of helpful little animals like birds and lizards that eat bugs, and when they want to relieve themselves they seem to have a knack for finding the area where you’ve just put in an expensive plant. vampire

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Posted: 17 September 2012 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 17 September 2012 08:59 AM

Yes, that plus a systematic genocide of all kittens who do not show a certain level of obsequiousness to humans.  It may be the only way of preventing cats from replacing us as the dominant species on Earth.

There isn’t a single person on this forum, well except Mriana, who doeasn’t believe that cats are secretly plotting to take over the World. I mean, Pussy Riot? A simple code for feline domination, and I for one am opposed to this animalistic individualism. It’s patently unpatriotic and will lead to a communist state. You mark my word! Give me a reverent, subservient, dull witted dog any day. Easily led, fed with scraps from my abundant table and thankful to serve me. In short, they know their place and keep it. Damn cats and their skeptic ways anyway. They’re only good for killing the vermiin that feed off our system.


Cap’t Jack

Alternatively, we could create a breed of super-cats and drop them off in Afghanistan to negate the Taliban.  No doubt, this would work, but in 20 or 30 years, our support of those cats would come back to haunt us.

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Posted: 17 September 2012 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Skeptic had a good article about this a couple of days ago.
http://www.skeptic.com/doubtful-news/dog-guarding-masters-grave-or-more-doglike-interpretation-needed

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Posted: 18 September 2012 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Cat attitude….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34z5dCmC4M

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