<insert ominous music> ‘Shadow government controls the world’
Posted: 25 September 2012 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]
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So I’ve got a family member who, as far as I can tell, is very convinced there’s a ‘new world order’ and a shadow government controlling things. I’ve tried (albeit briefly) explaining confirmation bias, how conspiracy theorists can’t ever be wrong because if you disagree with them you are part of the conspiracy, misunderstanding correlation and causation, some basics about human psychology, how difficult it is to keep a secret the more people know about it, et al. And I only get the ‘But this is so compelling it must be true.’

<smashes head against wall multiple times>

Thanks for letting me vent.  cheese

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 25 September 2012 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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“Yes, there is a conspiracy, indeed there are a great number of conspiracies, all tripping each other up… the main thing that I learned about conspiracy theories is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy, or the grey aliens, or the twelve-foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control, the truth is far more frightening; no-one is in control, the world is rudderless.” -Alan Moore

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Nice quote!

I was going to edit my post and add that I also mentioned agency and most people’s dislike of randomness. wink

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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There’s only one problem with the analyses in this thread so far.  Just because something has been coined a conspiracy doesn’t mean it’s not true.  In a similar sense, just because you’re paranoid that people are out to get you doesn’t mean there aren’t in fact people who are out to get you.  i.e. labeling someone “paranoid” doesn’t necessarily mean the subject of their paranoia is false.

In fact, you could go so far as to say one of the best ways to hide an untoward action would be to get it labeled as a conspiracy.  For example, let’s just say in the 50’s aliens did in fact land in area 51 or whatever the story is. If I were in the Air Force or government and wanted to hide the fact, I’d pay someone to write a detailed description of what happened, and put it in National Enquirer or some such gossip magazine. I’d then make sure to get some high profile officials or media types to laugh at the story and call it a conspiracy.

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Posted: 25 September 2012 10:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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CuthbertJ - 25 September 2012 10:47 AM

There’s only one problem with the analyses in this thread so far.  Just because something has been coined a conspiracy doesn’t mean it’s not true.  In a similar sense, just because you’re paranoid that people are out to get you doesn’t mean there aren’t in fact people who are out to get you.  i.e. labeling someone “paranoid” doesn’t necessarily mean the subject of their paranoia is false.

True in the general sense of the word, but I was speaking about a specific one: the New World Order/shadow government in control of ‘everything’. I’m not aware of any credible evidence that supports this conclusion. Could I be wrong in my current conviction that there is no such thing? Of course. My point is my relative doesn’t *think* they could be wrong. wink

CuthbertJ - 25 September 2012 10:47 AM

In fact, you could go so far as to say one of the best ways to hide an untoward action would be to get it labeled as a conspiracy.  For example, let’s just say in the 50’s aliens did in fact land in area 51 or whatever the story is. If I were in the Air Force or government and wanted to hide the fact, I’d pay someone to write a detailed description of what happened, and put it in National Enquirer or some such gossip magazine. I’d then make sure to get some high profile officials or media types to laugh at the story and call it a conspiracy.

Yes, that could certainly work. (‘K’ from Men In Black called the tabloids the best damn journalists on the planet. smile)

Take care,

Derek

[ Edited: 25 September 2012 11:00 AM by harry canyon ]
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Posted: 25 September 2012 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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As I’ve said before, life is much more complex than the two valued logic that most people use for their thinkng.  The more money one has, the more control over the society one has.  As such, while the world may not be run by a shadow government, I do believe our and all governments’ national decisions are inordinately influenced by the few wealthiest individuals and companies, both inside, and outside the nation’s boundaries.

Occam

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Posted: 25 September 2012 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Occam. - 25 September 2012 02:28 PM

As I’ve said before, life is much more complex than the two valued logic that most people use for their thinkng.  The more money one has, the more control over the society one has.  As such, while the world may not be run by a shadow government, I do believe our and all governments’ national decisions are inordinately influenced by the few wealthiest individuals and companies, both inside, and outside the nation’s boundaries.

Occam

Good point. That’s certainly something I agree with. Perhaps ‘shadow government’ is a label some folks use to describe this?

Take care,

Derek

P.S. On the off chance any one is interested, this is the ‘movie’ she referred to to explain it all. Just read the description for starters… smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

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Posted: 26 September 2012 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Occam. - 25 September 2012 02:28 PM

As I’ve said before, life is much more complex than the two valued logic that most people use for their thinkng.  The more money one has, the more control over the society one has.  As such, while the world may not be run by a shadow government, I do believe our and all governments’ national decisions are inordinately influenced by the few wealthiest individuals and companies, both inside, and outside the nation’s boundaries.

Occam

I would even say they go beyond inordinate influence to outright interference.  The ultra-rich think differently than most of us.  They think in terms of shaping history. And in that elections and lives are just things to manipulate.

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Posted: 26 September 2012 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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CuthbertJ - 26 September 2012 09:48 AM
Occam. - 25 September 2012 02:28 PM

As I’ve said before, life is much more complex than the two valued logic that most people use for their thinkng.  The more money one has, the more control over the society one has.  As such, while the world may not be run by a shadow government, I do believe our and all governments’ national decisions are inordinately influenced by the few wealthiest individuals and companies, both inside, and outside the nation’s boundaries.

Occam

I would even say they go beyond inordinate influence to outright interference.  The ultra-rich think differently than most of us.  They think in terms of shaping history. And in that elections and lives are just things to manipulate.

What terms do you think in?

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Posted: 27 September 2012 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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mid atlantic - 26 September 2012 08:03 PM

What terms do you think in?

Cube logic.

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Posted: 27 September 2012 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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mid atlantic - 26 September 2012 08:03 PM
CuthbertJ - 26 September 2012 09:48 AM
Occam. - 25 September 2012 02:28 PM

As I’ve said before, life is much more complex than the two valued logic that most people use for their thinkng.  The more money one has, the more control over the society one has.  As such, while the world may not be run by a shadow government, I do believe our and all governments’ national decisions are inordinately influenced by the few wealthiest individuals and companies, both inside, and outside the nation’s boundaries.

Occam

I would even say they go beyond inordinate influence to outright interference.  The ultra-rich think differently than most of us.  They think in terms of shaping history. And in that elections and lives are just things to manipulate.

What terms do you think in?

As a working stiff I think in terms of getting my kids through college. Paying bills. Just trying to make it day to day and maybe have a nice vacation once in awhile.  And even when I dream about hitting the lottery even that is in everyday terms…paying off all bills, helping family members pay off their bills, their kids college, etc.  That’s way way different from someone who lives a money’s no object lifestyle, and has for some time.

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