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will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?
Posted: 30 September 2012 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]
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will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?

or will they discredit the evidence as fake?

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Posted: 30 September 2012 08:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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free_of_belief - 30 September 2012 08:09 PM

will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?

or will they discredit the evidence as fake?

The whole purpose of ‘freethought’ is of seeking evidence. If we then dismissed evidence out of hand, we wouldn’t be freethinkers, would we? On the other hand if it CAN be discredited, it would be false, wouldn’t it? That is how science works?

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Posted: 30 September 2012 08:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Are you really asking if we non - believers would refuse to accept evidence of a deity, out of dislike for the whole concept?

If irrefutable proof was found, then I would have to believe. It would be hard to accept, however.

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Posted: 30 September 2012 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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free_of_belief - 30 September 2012 08:09 PM

will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?

or will they discredit the evidence as fake?

I dunno… Which of the many gods presented throughout human history are you talking about? wink

While I’m of the opinion that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, if that evidence existed, sure.

BTW: Despite your handle… Do you believe despite a lack of such evidence?

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 01 October 2012 12:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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actually i am not talking about monotheistic god nor polytheistic god. there is no evidence in both cases. but there are other paths of seeking god namely: tao, zen, buddhism, Dzogchen ( read so-shen) etc. what about them ?

taoism said that there is one TAO which cannot be described in words, which has its path in circular form. tao can only be attained through meditation.

zen totally dismissed the idea of god rather it teaches you how to be a god i.e. how to achieve your own divinity and how to have clear thinking. it also emphasizes on meditation.

Dzogchen helps seeker to know his own spiritual self through dream work. it also dismiss the idea of an almighty god.

buddhism dismissed the idea of god. it rather teaches the seeker how to be a buddha i.e an enlightened man.

in one word all these paths dismiss the idea of an outer god who regulates our lives from outside. they rather teach us how to attain our own inner divinity or divine nature.

they all teach meditation as the only way to know your inner divinity.

there are many people who follow these paths and find them helpful. 

have anyone among you ever try meditation to know your inner self?

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Posted: 01 October 2012 03:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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free_of_belief - 01 October 2012 12:03 AM

taoism said that there is one TAO which cannot be described in words, which has its path in circular form. tao can only be attained through meditation.

Perhaps, but is that God? Or is it just human nature?

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Posted: 01 October 2012 03:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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free_of_belief - 01 October 2012 12:03 AM

buddhism dismissed the idea of god. it rather teaches the seeker how to be a buddha i.e an enlightened man.

This is not proof of a deity though, the so called “enlightenment” of Buddhism could just be the way some individuals brain’s work.

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Posted: 01 October 2012 04:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I agree with Asanta that if a god can be irrevocably proven then so be it. Next question: what do we do about it? Worship the entity? Sacrifice animals to it? Kill people for it if it decides that we should to placate it? Ask it to intercede for us? There are people who really piss me off and I have a very short list, but could I ask it to eliminate these people? maybe drop a house on one in particular? Would it tell us the secrets of the universe just by asking? the list is endless. I agree also that Zen, meditation etc. can calm the body and open the mind but I can get a similar feeling canoeing on my favorite lake. It’s my way of comuning with nature. Beautiful scenery, breathing techniques and mind altering drugs however, don’t prove the existence of a god or higher being or an eminently enlightened prophet. Show me the emperical evidence and I’ll be happy to bend a knee.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 01 October 2012 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 01 October 2012 04:17 AM

Show me the emperical evidence and I’ll be happy to bend a knee.

I’m not convinced about this, that is what we atheists say but really?

The trouble is what ever empirical evidence is presented we’ll say there is more likely to be a natural cause. And if we can’t think of how it could happen, well play the ‘god of the gaps’ card.

Stephen

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Posted: 01 October 2012 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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StephenLawrence - 01 October 2012 04:45 AM

I’m not convinced about this, that is what we atheists say but really?

The trouble is what ever empirical evidence is presented we’ll say there is more likely to be a natural cause. And if we can’t think of how it could happen, well play the ‘god of the gaps’ card.

I dunno. There’s lots of potential evidence we could think up. Perhaps we encounter a complete Bible engraved in the rocks on Mars, and indeed on every planet we visit. Perhaps we discover alien civilizations who also worship the same Bible and are trying to find Israel on earth. Perhaps a huge, unboundedly knowing and powerful being comes down from the clouds preaching the Old Testament. Perhaps we take the “blue pill” (was it a blue or red? can’t recall) and wake up in a heavenly realm to learn that all the evil we thought had happened was only in a dream, and instead we’re surrounded by angels singing heavenly praise. Or perhaps we find the complete Bible written letter for letter in some microscopic physical element throughout the universe. Or perhaps all of a sudden everyone on Earth wakes up believing in the Bible as the word of God. (Except you, if you want to make the argument). Etc.

Now, none of this strictly would prove that God existed, but it would certainly put a pretty big roadblock in front of a lot of skeptical arguments.

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Posted: 01 October 2012 05:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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dougsmith - 01 October 2012 05:03 AM
StephenLawrence - 01 October 2012 04:45 AM

I’m not convinced about this, that is what we atheists say but really?

The trouble is what ever empirical evidence is presented we’ll say there is more likely to be a natural cause. And if we can’t think of how it could happen, well play the ‘god of the gaps’ card.

I dunno. There’s lots of potential evidence we could think up. Perhaps we encounter a complete Bible engraved in the rocks on Mars, and indeed on every planet we visit. Perhaps we discover alien civilizations who also worship the same Bible and are trying to find Israel on earth. Perhaps a huge, unboundedly knowing and powerful being comes down from the clouds preaching the Old Testament. Perhaps we take the “blue pill” (was it a blue or red? can’t recall) and wake up in a heavenly realm to learn that all the evil we thought had happened was only in a dream, and instead we’re surrounded by angels singing heavenly praise. Or perhaps we find the complete Bible written letter for letter in some microscopic physical element throughout the universe. Or perhaps all of a sudden everyone on Earth wakes up believing in the Bible as the word of God. (Except you, if you want to make the argument). Etc.

Now, none of this strictly would prove that God existed, but it would certainly put a pretty big roadblock in front of a lot of skeptical arguments.

Well, we would take a lot of convincing that people weren’t intentionally trying to trick us, or we weren’t hallucinating but perhaps you’re right.

Stephen

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Posted: 01 October 2012 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I agree with Asanta that if a god can be irrevocably proven then so be it. Next question: what do we do about it? Worship the entity? Sacrifice animals to it? Kill people for it if it decides that we should to placate it? Ask it to intercede for us? There are people who really piss me off and I have a very short list, but could I ask it to eliminate these people? maybe drop a house on one in particular? Would it tell us the secrets of the universe just by asking? the list is endless.

it seems that you atheists are haunted by terrorism of monotheistic faith: christianity, islam and judaism so much so that you cannot think up of a god who is non violent. pity on you.

I agree also that Zen, meditation etc. can calm the body and open the mind but I can get a similar feeling canoeing on my favorite lake. It’s my way of comuning with nature.

but canoeing on your favorite lake will not help you in knowing yourself. if it can help, then all those people who canoe will know themselves and become a buddha and the world will be full of buddhas canoeing on lake.

Beautiful scenery, breathing techniques and mind altering drugs however, don’t prove the existence of a god or higher being or an eminently enlightened prophet. Show me the emperical evidence and I’ll be happy to bend a knee.

please do meditation, read zen or buddhist text books and try to understand what they say. you will have your empirical evidence.

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Posted: 01 October 2012 07:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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StephenLawrence - 01 October 2012 04:45 AM
Thevillageatheist - 01 October 2012 04:17 AM

Show me the emperical evidence and I’ll be happy to bend a knee.

I’m not convinced about this, that is what we atheists say but really?

The trouble is what ever empirical evidence is presented we’ll say there is more likely to be a natural cause. And if we can’t think of how it could happen, well play the ‘god of the gaps’ card.

Stephen

exactly! this is my point.

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Posted: 01 October 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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it seems that you atheists are haunted by terrorism of monotheistic faith: christianity, islam and judaism so much so that you cannot think up of a god who is non violent. pity on you.


Nope, I’m not haunted by anything and why did you refer to faith as “terrorism”? freudian slip perhaps? And I can think of any god I lkie; there are several out there to choose from or I could just make one up.


but canoeing on your favorite lake will not help you in knowing yourself. if it can help, then all those people who canoe will know themselves and become a buddha and the world will be full of buddhas canoeing on lake.


How do you know? Many people canoe, some for exercise, some to escape stress, and some to commune. That’s about as close to spiritual as it gets for me. And buddhas on the lake, hmm a moment of zen!

 

please do meditation, read zen or buddhist text books and try to understand what they say. you will have your empirical evidence

 

No I won’t. As much as I respect the philosophy it is subjective as far as I’m concerned. And while I’m not as well read in the subject as others on this site, I’m well aware of the history and philosophy of budddhism. I don’t count this as empirical evidence.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 01 October 2012 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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My god does exist.  Dreaming in his death/sleep deep beneath the waves of the Pacific.

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Posted: 01 October 2012 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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free_of_belief - 01 October 2012 07:25 AM

please do meditation, read zen or buddhist text books and try to understand what they say. you will have your empirical evidence.

I do meditation, read Zen and Buddhist texts. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

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