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will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?
Posted: 29 April 2013 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 211 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 29 April 2013 08:43 AM

Which is why I gave up trying back on post 149 when he attempted to refute the science behind bat wings.

you mean the science, where rats began to jump, to catch insects, and became bats ??!!

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Posted: 29 April 2013 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 212 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 29 April 2013 08:43 AM
Which is why I gave up trying back on post 149 when he attempted to refute the science behind bat wings.

you mean the science, where rats began to jump, to catch insects, and became bats ??!!


Thanks, you just made my point fella! Bye now.


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Posted: 29 April 2013 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 213 ]
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Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 05:26 AM
Mriana - 29 April 2013 05:21 AM
Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 04:52 AM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 04:47 AM

So, where does that prove a scriptural god?

1. i am not here to prove something. Rather to present evidence for a creator God.

2. i am not presenting evidence in first stance for the God of the bible.

You fail.

Let me ask you this, if there is a creator god, then who created the creator god?

nothing. A eternal God, without beginning, and without a end, was not created, but simply is. Interestingly, this is how the God of the bible reveals himself all through the bible.

No, it’s how people whose writings wound up in the bible describe the god they believe in.  There is a big difference, 

You claim your god is eternal (with no evidence of it, by the way) but you claim the universe cannot be.  Why is that? You claim that everything must be created, but not god.  Where is your evidence for this extraordinary claim?


.....

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Posted: 29 April 2013 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 214 ]
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Lois - 29 April 2013 11:34 AM

You claim your god is eternal (with no evidence of it, by the way) but you claim the universe cannot be.  Why is that? You claim that everything must be created, but not god.  Where is your evidence for this extraordinary claim?


.....

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t199-evidence-that-the-universe-had-a-beginning

there are several reasons :

The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago.” Stephen Hawking The Beginning of Time

Alexander Vilenkin is Professor of Physics and Director of the Institute of Cosmology at Tufts University. A theoretical physicist who has been working in the field of cosmology for 25 years, Vilenkin has written over 150 papers and is responsible for introducing the ideas of eternal inflation and quantum creation of the universe from nothing.

Vilenkin is blunt about the implications:

It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning (Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176).

the existence of an actually infinite number of things is metaphysically impossible. If the universe never began to exist, then its past duration would be actually infinite. [5] Since actual infinities cannot exist, then the past duration of the universe must have been finite, implying that the universe must have begun to exist. Even if one grants that it is possible for an actual infinite to exist, it still cannot be formed by successive addition, and henceforth the past duration of the universe must be finite. From a scientific perspective, the beginning of the universe is strongly supported by modern big bang cosmology. The proponent of the KCA thus finds himself comfortably seated in the midst of mainstream cosmology. Combined, these two reasons lend strong support to the truth of the second premise. Additionally, an eternal universe is ruled out by the second law of thermodynamics.

Potential infinities are sets that are constantly increasing toward infinity as a limit, but never attain infinite status. A more accurate description would be to say that their members are indefinite. An actual infinite, by contrast, is a set x that contains a subset x’ that is equivalent to x. “The crucial difference between an infinite set and an indefinite collection would be that the former is conceived as a determinate whole actually possessing an infinite number of members, while the latter never actually attains infinity, although it increases perpetually. We have, then, three types of collection that we must keep conceptually distinct: finite, infinite, and indefinite.

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Posted: 29 April 2013 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 215 ]
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Adonai888 - 27 April 2013 01:36 PM

Science has brought a big deal of understanding of our universe, and our environment, no doubt about that. But it has shown us as well the limit, and how far it can do. The origin of all that exists however is a entirely other subject…

Oh, the hubris of theists. Science has shown us it’s limitations?  What kind of argument from authority is that?

It is Theism that has shown us it’s limitations and failings, starting with “In the Beginning God created….......”.  What god, which god?.

I have given you a spiritual out from ancient myth and provided a link to a possible meta-physical construct which would replace the gods of mythology with a construct of a pseudo intelligent Wholeness based scientifically on sound arguments by an eminent physicist.

That his proposals are being debated is proof of their fundamentally sound reasoning. Fortunately, scientists do not kill each other in disagreements of fundamental knowledge, science seeks truth, not domination.

Theism for all it’s claims of moral guidance and exclusivity has a history of violent suppression of all thought except that which is deemed appropriate by the religious hierarchy.

[ Edited: 29 April 2013 10:38 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 216 ]
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Write4U - 29 April 2013 01:55 PM

It is Theism that has shown us it’s limitations and fails, starting with “In the Beginning God created….......”.

show me how it fails.

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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 217 ]
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Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 09:08 AM
Thevillageatheist - 29 April 2013 08:43 AM

Which is why I gave up trying back on post 149 when he attempted to refute the science behind bat wings.

you mean the science, where rats began to jump, to catch insects, and became bats ??!!

Oh Adonai,  we are trying to love you, but you make it so difficult.  Especially when you misrepresent the simplest known facts in favor of wishful thinking.

Myth 5: Bats are rodents.
Bats are no more related to rodents than humans are. Evolution studies show that bats are more closely related to primates than to rodents.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0204/feature7/online_extra.html

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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 218 ]
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Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:27 PM

Evolution studies show that bats are more closely related to primates than to rodents.

what studies are that ?

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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 219 ]
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Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 02:05 PM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 01:55 PM

It is Theism that has shown us it’s limitations and fails, starting with “In the Beginning God created….......”.

show me how it fails.

Easy, In the Beginning there was NO god. God (the recurring pseudo intelligent functions of universal constants) came into existence along with spacetime). Case closed.

No, you show me how he did it!!  Sorry, but “let there be light does not quite do it for me”.

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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 220 ]
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Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:35 PM

Easy, In the Beginning there was NO god. God

baseless assertion. thats how you will try to convince me ?

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Posted: 29 April 2013 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 221 ]
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Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 02:35 PM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:27 PM

Evolution studies show that bats are more closely related to primates than to rodents.

what studies are that ?

From the link I provided.

Knowledge is the key to appreciating these reclusive creatures. And if you want to learn more, to whom do you address all bat queries? How about a real live “Batman.” Merlin Tuttle, founder and president of Bat Conservation International (BCI), helps people understand the beneficial role of bats to ecosystems and humans. Based in Austin, Texas, said to be home to the world’s largest urban bat colony, Tuttle dispels damaging myths that plague the world’s only true flying mammal:

Are you now going to dispute the ability of science to determine whether an animal is a rodent or a mammal?

And all that twisting a squirming to justify your untenable position of the existence of an intelligent motivated being prior to reality itself.
I find it very revealing that theists chose the bat as an example of a non evolved mammal. Bats are demons, and are also from before creation, just like the other 7 + million demons which dwelled with god prior to creation.  This is just a little too outlandish, don’t you agree?

The Talmud declares that there are 7,405,926 demons, divided in 72 companies. Indeed, some commentators hold that Satan was a prosecutor for God in early Judaism, and a somewhat minor angel at that. While most people believe that Lucifer and Satan are different names for the same being, not all scholars subscribe to this view.http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/DEMONS/Demonology.php

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Posted: 29 April 2013 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 222 ]
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Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 02:39 PM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:35 PM

Easy, In the Beginning there was NO god. God

baseless assertion. thats how you will try to convince me ?

Now I am getting annoyed. You are selectively quoting my statements and I will not tolerate that. On the off chance that you have trouble understanding simple English I shall repeat the entire statement once more.

“In the Beginning there was NO god. God (the recurring pseudo intelligent functions of universal constants) came into existence along with spacetime). Case closed.”

Contrary to your debating techniques I do provide alternative answers, which you so easily seem to discard and ignore. Who are you trying to fool?

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Posted: 29 April 2013 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 223 ]
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Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:59 PM
Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 02:35 PM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:27 PM

Evolution studies show that bats are more closely related to primates than to rodents.

what studies are that ?

From the link I provided.

Knowledge is the key to appreciating these reclusive creatures. And if you want to learn more, to whom do you address all bat queries? How about a real live “Batman.” Merlin Tuttle, founder and president of Bat Conservation International (BCI), helps people understand the beneficial role of bats to ecosystems and humans. Based in Austin, Texas, said to be home to the world’s largest urban bat colony, Tuttle dispels damaging myths that plague the world’s only true flying mammal:

Are you now going to dispute the ability of science to determine whether an animal is a rodent or a mammal?

And all that twisting a squirming to justify your untenable position of the existence of an intelligent motivated being prior to reality itself.
I find it very revealing that theists chose the bat as an example of a non evolved mammal. Bats are demons, and are also from before creation, just like the other 7 + million demons which dwelled with god prior to creation.  This is just a little too outlandish, don’t you agree?

The Talmud declares that there are 7,405,926 demons, divided in 72 companies. Indeed, some commentators hold that Satan was a prosecutor for God in early Judaism, and a somewhat minor angel at that. While most people believe that Lucifer and Satan are different names for the same being, not all scholars subscribe to this view.http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/DEMONS/Demonology.php

unfortunately, the link you provided, has not explained at all, how bats could have evolved.

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Posted: 29 April 2013 03:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 224 ]
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Write4U - 29 April 2013 03:07 PM
Adonai888 - 29 April 2013 02:39 PM
Write4U - 29 April 2013 02:35 PM

Easy, In the Beginning there was NO god. God

baseless assertion. thats how you will try to convince me ?

Now I am getting annoyed. You are selectively quoting my statements and I will not tolerate that. On the off chance that you have trouble understanding simple English I shall repeat the entire statement once more.

“In the Beginning there was NO god. God (the recurring pseudo intelligent functions of universal constants) came into existence along with spacetime). Case closed.”

Contrary to your debating techniques I do provide alternative answers, which you so easily seem to discard and ignore. Who are you trying to fool?

You made a absolute assertion. therefore you need to provide proofs to back up your claim. Since you don’t have any, how about you stop making these baseless assertions ?

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Posted: 29 April 2013 03:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 225 ]
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Oh, please…............306.gif

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