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will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?
Posted: 02 May 2013 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 286 ]
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GdB - 02 May 2013 05:09 AM

This is so ridiculous. Just lookup “Evolution of cetaceans” in Wikipedia. Your source is lying, and that is not allowed per commandment.

http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-chapter-5-whale-evolution

One amazing feature of most echo-locating dolphins and small whales is the ‘melon,’ a fatty protrusion on the forehead. This ‘melon’ is actually a sound lens—a sophisticated structure designed to focus the emitted sound waves into a beam which the dolphin can direct where it likes. This sound lens depends on the fact that different lipids (fatty compounds) bend the ultrasonic sound waves traveling through them in different ways. The different lipids have to be arranged in the right shape and sequence in order to focus the returning sound echoes. Each separate lipid is unique and different from normal blubber lipids, and is made by a complicated chemical process, requiring a number of different enzymes.2

For such an organ to have evolved, random mutations must have formed the right enzymes to make the right lipids, and other mutations must have caused the lipids to be deposited in the right place and shape. A gradual step-by-step evolution of the organ is not feasible, because until the lipids were fully formed and at least partly in the right place and shape, they would have been of no use. Therefore, natural selection would not have favored incomplete intermediate forms.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 287 ]
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GdB - 02 May 2013 05:09 AM

It means: no explanation (yet). Not being able to imagine how the gap can be filled is not an argument for the impossibility of filling the gap…................

...............with the preconceived theory of evolution, right ? No explanation yet, therefore the ET is true by default ? Did i get that right ?

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Posted: 02 May 2013 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 288 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 05:41 AM

For such an organ to have evolved, random mutations must have formed the right enzymes to make the right lipids, and other mutations must have caused the lipids to be deposited in the right place and shape. A gradual step-by-step evolution of the organ is not feasible, because until the lipids were fully formed and at least partly in the right place and shape, they would have been of no use. Therefore, natural selection would not have favored incomplete intermediate forms.

This is another example of ‘cannot imagine’ so ‘is impossible’.

Just Google a bit more:

Cases of convergent evolution - where different lineages have evolved similar traits independently - are common and have proven central to our understanding of selection. Yet convincing examples of adaptive convergence at the sequence level are exceptionally rare [1]. The motor protein Prestin is expressed in mammalian outer hair cells (OHCs) and is thought to confer high frequency sensitivity and selectivity in the mammalian auditory system [2]. We previously reported that the Prestin gene has undergone sequence convergence among unrelated lineages of echolocating bat [3]. Here we report that this gene has also undergone convergent amino acid substitutions in echolocating dolphins, which group with echolocating bats in a phylogenetic tree of Prestin. Furthermore, we find evidence that these changes were driven by natural selection.

From here.

Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 05:44 AM

...............with the preconceived theory of evolution, right ? No explanation yet, therefore the ET is true by default ? Did i get that right ?

No, not therefore. But because there is an awful lot of other evidence, that you happily ignore.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 289 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 03:22 AM
asanta - 01 May 2013 09:04 PM

Humans , intelligent beings, have the hability to produce radar and echolon systems. Chance, or physical necessity, don’t.  This is a nonsense statement. Please clarify.

Its not a nonsense statement. I see it as a fact. Prove me wrong, if you can.

There is no such thing as a ‘irreducible complex system’. Please give an example.

the eye
blood
the cell
the flagellum

Don’t bother using flagellum or the eye, they have been debunked over and over and over.

I don’t think so.

Adonai chooses ignorance over knowledge.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 290 ]
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GdB - 02 May 2013 05:54 AM

Furthermore, we find evidence that these changes were driven by natural selection.

Sure. i would like to see what evidence that is. Just assert it does not make it true.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 291 ]
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DarronS - 02 May 2013 06:05 AM

Adonai chooses ignorance over knowledge.

what are you doing to help me overcome my ” ignorance ” ?!!

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Posted: 02 May 2013 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 292 ]
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Your ignorance is probably incurable. Until the day someone will be able to prescribe 5 ml of Intelligex three times daily, I doubt there is much hope for you.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 293 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 09:39 AM
DarronS - 02 May 2013 06:05 AM

Adonai chooses ignorance over knowledge.

what are you doing to help me overcome my ” ignorance ” ?!!

I explained some of your misconceptions about astronomy, but you ignored the explanations. I would suggest you enroll in a local community college and take some introductory astronomy and biology courses, but if you aren’t curious enough to click a link I doubt you’ll spend the energy to take an actual class.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 294 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 09:39 AM
DarronS - 02 May 2013 06:05 AM

Adonai chooses ignorance over knowledge.

what are you doing to help me overcome my ” ignorance ” ?!!

We are trying to break down that unwarranted total surrender to the idea of a higher intelligence which somehow holds mankind precious and that god’s divine actions are taken for the betterment of man.
That absolute certainty is so egocentric, I am afraid is has become a clinical condition in some.

You must understand that the universe appeared long before man and there is no reason to suspect that the universe was made for man, WHY?  OTOH, scripture misleads people into thinking that the universe was made specifically for man and that is simply not true. It is a totally manufactured story granting man dominion over the earth.

Do you believe god granted man dominion over the earth or do you believe man is subject to Natural events without the protection and interference of a supernatural Daddy.  Would you still believe if an asteroid destroyed all surface dwellers and left a few “cuttlefish” alive?  God choosing and selecting the cuttlefish to be its next favorite pet for a few million years. They have already been around a lot longer than man. A true survivor in the image of god.
 
Let me ask you Adonai, if mankind manages to eradicate itself, will god just say, “forget it, you had your chance”  and let the universe just fade away because man no longer can enjoy it?. How would the universe fare without mankind?  Do you really think that the universe would cease to exist without humans?
So much for your personal god. If not, then the question becomes if mankind is at all necessary in the universe. If not, where does that leave god?

Theism believes God is greater than the universe, atheism believes the greatness of God depends on the size of the human mind. Small minds, small gods.

[ Edited: 02 May 2013 01:23 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 02 May 2013 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 295 ]
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George - 02 May 2013 10:39 AM

Your ignorance is probably incurable. Until the day someone will be able to prescribe 5 ml of Intelligex three times daily, I doubt there is much hope for you.

Your personal attacks are a admittance that you have no good arguments to represent your position. And at the same time, you have no good arguments as well to rebate mine. You are openly admitting you lost the debate.

What would you do in case, God would reveal himself in a way, that there could exist no doubt anymore about his existence, and it would be the God of the bible.  Would you prefere to continue to live as if he does not exist, or would you ask him to let get into your life, and become your lord and God, and your savior ? You would continue to have a free choice.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 296 ]
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DarronS - 02 May 2013 12:08 PM

I explained some of your misconceptions about astronomy, but you ignored the explanations.

I don’t aknowledge your explanations as convincing.

I would suggest you enroll in a local community college and take some introductory astronomy and biology courses

One more that thinks is winning the debate in making implicit insults. Welcome to the looser crowd.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 297 ]
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Write4U - 02 May 2013 12:22 PM

We

Why do you identifly yourself in plural form ?

are trying to break down that unwarranted total surrender to the idea of a higher intelligence

correct. You are trying…...

which somehow holds mankind precious and that god’s divine actions are taken for the betterment of man.

indeed. If God does not exist, human life has no more intrinsic value, than the life of any kind of animal. Could you explain, why you think the value of a amoeba, or a cow,  should be less valuable, than of a human being ?

That absolute certainty is so egocentric, I am afraid is has become a clinical condition in some.

Oh, want to make part of the looser crowd. You are the third by now….

You must understand that the universe appeared long before man and there is no reason to suspect that the universe was made for man, WHY?

I guess it was indeed not just made for man, but for all living kinds.

Do you believe god granted man dominion over the earth or do you believe man is subject to Natural events without the protection and interference of a supernatural Daddy.

You are talking about two different things. I believe God gave men the intelligence, to explore the earth, and make its resources serve for him. That does not mean however, that we could, or should be able to domine all natural forces.


 

Would you still believe if an asteroid destroyed all surface dwellers and left a few “cuttlefish” alive?  God choosing and selecting the cuttlefish to be its next favorite pet for a few million years. They have already been around a lot longer than man. A true survivor in the image of god.

Could be.
 

Let me ask you Adonai, if mankind manages to eradicate itself, will god just say, “forget it, you had your chance”  and let the universe just fade away because man no longer can enjoy it?. How would the universe fare without mankind?  Do you really think that the universe would cease to exist without humans?

No , i don’t think so.

Theism believes God is greater than the universe, atheism believes the greatness of God depends on the size of the human mind. Small minds, small gods.

you said it right. Atheism ” believes “...... that does not say much…...

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Posted: 02 May 2013 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 298 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 01:30 PM

What would you do in case, God would reveal himself in a way, that there could exist no doubt anymore about his existence, and it would be the God of the bible.  Would you prefere to continue to live as if he does not exist, or would you ask him to let get into your life, and become your lord and God, and your savior ? You would continue to have a free choice.

And what if God is the Rain God? Would you begin your every day with a crazy move to bring around some precipitation? Or what if God is Zoolla-Boolla and wants you to recite ten zoollas-boollas every five hours?

I know you think you are sounding all spiritual here revealing the Good News, but I think you are just insane. Too bad you don’t have a free choice to do much about it.

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Posted: 02 May 2013 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 299 ]
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Adonai,

Write4U - 02 May 2013 12:22 PM

We

Why do you identifly yourself in plural form ?

It appears that the great majority of minds on this forum believe that your mind believes in a thing which is contrary to Universal law.
I happen to agree with this stance in my own way and used the “we” as a confirmation of my support for the majority position.

which somehow holds mankind precious and that god’s divine actions are taken for the betterment of man.

indeed. If God does not exist, human life has no more intrinsic value, than the life of any kind of animal. Could you explain, why you think the value of a amoeba, or a cow,  should be less valuable, than of a human being ?

Could you first explain why you believe I think that the value of a amoeba, or a cow, should be less valuable than of a human being?
It is theism that places man above all but god (and here god even says, “behold they have become like me”). The greater the God…,
the greater the Man who “knows” him.  Just like Xenu.  Remember him, he lived…..hummm….., over there——> high in the sky?

[ Edited: 02 May 2013 02:44 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 02 May 2013 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 300 ]
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Adonai888 - 02 May 2013 01:32 PM

Welcome to the looser crowd.

Better than being uptight.

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