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will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?
Posted: 02 October 2012 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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dprice, I mean no insult when I say that your proof is Rumsfeldian,  (I think Rumsfeld was right, the unknown unknowns are a bitch)  I like it.  Please, go mix it up with Bryan, he’s real active in the religion and secularism section now, and I’m curious to see what happens.

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Posted: 02 October 2012 09:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Non-existent 1 (mystical 7 directions), created by non-existent 2 (god), means non-existent 2 exists?  Really?  Not to mention you failed or refused to actually address the content of the argument.  And this means you created in yourself superior debating skills and can use words and numbers?  WOW!  Of course, it is typical today to avoid the argument one cannot grasp or refute.  And this is debating skills?


Nothing from nothing means nothing!

‘Nough’ said.

BTW, Maybe you should actually attempt to address the argument, but you will have to think first.

New to the site I see. My post was meant as a parody and not in any way an argument concerning the existence of a supernatural being. It was merely a reply to your redundant spaghetti bowl concerning the word existence. If you want an argument from an atheists point of view it is simply that there is no empirical evidence of the existence of a supreme being. If evidence becomes available in future then I’ll change my mind, as I’ve stated before many times. I’m not in the habit of playing mindless word games to debate how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Also, The “superior debating skills” comment was a jibe at another poster and not actual chest thumping on my part. So, you see, I was thinking first, just not in the way you thought I was. Nuff said?


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 02 October 2012 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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free_of_belief - 30 September 2012 08:09 PM

will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?

or will they discredit the evidence as fake?

See my closing; it’s sociology.  Science covers more than the study of physical phenomena.  Religion is one hell of a human organizing tool.  But it is no more nor no less than that.  With our current civilization that is more and more interconnected one of the major dangers is that certain humans who construct their identities based upon belief systems & gods created by past generations will become so closed minded and violent that they may destroy our species.  Any religion (or non-religious organization) that does not put the general welfare of all humans is a danger all of us.

[ Edited: 02 October 2012 12:29 PM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 02 October 2012 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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dprice - 02 October 2012 06:55 AM

Nothing from nothing means nothing!

How do you know that?  Perhaps you should give some thought to the properties and potential of nothing.

BTW, Maybe you should actually attempt to address the argument, but you will have to think first.

The question is silly and only a silly answer is required.

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Posted: 02 October 2012 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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If the Christian god revealed himself to us our best course of action would be for the world to join forces and throw every nuclear weapon on Earth at his house.

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Posted: 03 October 2012 02:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 02 October 2012 04:23 AM

Flaunting mystical numerical skills, master debater skills, and cunning linguist abilities in a single post, I daresay, pressies the threshold of arrogance.  Take heed.  All glory is fleeting. 

Also, I am not so sure that Jeremiah really was a bullfrog.


I totally reject your objectification of my obviously superior linguistic skills. It isn’t arrogance that you object to, it is envy my friend. Sheer envy. there,  I have you knave. And yes, he was a good friend of mine.


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Envy, eh? Perhaps you have me there.  But I bet that you never understood a single word that Jeremiah said.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 03 October 2012 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Jeciron - 02 October 2012 08:54 AM

dprice, I mean no insult when I say that your proof is Rumsfeldian,  (I think Rumsfeld was right, the unknown unknowns are a bitch)  I like it.  Please, go mix it up with Bryan, he’s real active in the religion and secularism section now, and I’m curious to see what happens.

Rumsfeld was a doddering piece of crap.  (No offense meant to crap.)

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 03 October 2012 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Rumsfeld was a doddering piece of crap.  (No offense meant to crap.)

I agree with that, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

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Posted: 03 October 2012 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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DarronS - 02 October 2012 04:28 PM

If the Christian god revealed himself to us our best course of action would be for the world to join forces and throw every nuclear weapon on Earth at his house.

Right on. Why even mess with evidence and all that. Ok I grant that “god” exists. Now what? If she’s anything like the Christian god, I’ll take my chances NOT worshipping her, NOT going to church, etc. I’ll just go on trying to be a good person DESPITE her insistence that some people are going to rot in hell, that sometimes there’s a “higher” purpose for her allowing babies to be born with various diseases, etc. Ya no, I can do without that kind of god.

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Posted: 04 October 2012 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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free_of_belief - 30 September 2012 08:09 PM

will freethinkers accept god if they find evidence?

or will they discredit the evidence as fake?

So far I have been given tons of evidence showing god exists.  Examples: The bible, testimonial evidence by believers of many different religions, instruction at catholic schools, and years of attending catholic mass where tons of evidence was poured on me.
I still don’t believe god exists, in fact with my own evidence I have gathered, I am 100% certain that god doesn’t exist.
A natural catastrophe, or a visit by ET life forms far more advanced than we could even imagine(mistaking the ETs as god-even if they claimed to be god) would not constitute evidence that god exists for me.

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Posted: 04 October 2012 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Envy, eh? Perhaps you have me there.  But I bet that you never understood a single word that Jeremiah said.


No Tim, i didn’t. I must confess the truth, but he did have some mighty fine wine!

 

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Posted: 04 October 2012 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 04 October 2012 01:05 PM

Envy, eh? Perhaps you have me there.  But I bet that you never understood a single word that Jeremiah said.


No Tim, i didn’t. I must confess the truth, but he did have some mighty fine wine!

 

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Joy to the world! All the boys and girls! Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea…..

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Posted: 04 October 2012 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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So far I have been given tons of evidence showing god exists.  Examples: The bible, testimonial evidence by believers of many different religions, instruction at catholic schools, and years of attending catholic mass where tons of evidence was poured on me.

It seems to me that out of all the xtian beliefs you ex-Catholics had the hardest time breaking out of the mindset. I have several friends still ” in the faith” who wouldn’t dare leave the church for fear of excommunication not only from the church,but their friends and families too. As a lapsed semi-fundie I find it hard to relate to your delimna of science over belief. You guys were pumped full guilt from the outset while the Protestants could flit from group to group at will if we had a problem with the dogma. Ex, I once attended a local church of Christ and their belief excludes musical instruments as accompaniment for hymns. After a few months of that plus closed communion I went back to the methodists. Have a hell fire preacher? Leave for another sect less judgmental. It was like a xtian buffet (still can’t spell smorgasbord). While Catholics are trapped with no other “catholic split off sect”. I know you’re thinking Hmmm, the Episcopals are kind of catholic-lite but it isn’t quite the same. Kudos to any ex-catholic for their successful break away. And no, angels won’t cry.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 04 October 2012 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Joy to the world! All the boys and girls! Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea…..


Joy to you and me!

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 04 October 2012 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 04 October 2012 01:23 PM

So far I have been given tons of evidence showing god exists.  Examples: The bible, testimonial evidence by believers of many different religions, instruction at catholic schools, and years of attending catholic mass where tons of evidence was poured on me.

It seems to me that out of all the xtian beliefs you ex-Catholics had the hardest time breaking out of the mindset. I have several friends still ” in the faith” who wouldn’t dare leave the church for fear of excommunication not only from the church,but their friends and families too. As a lapsed semi-fundie I find it hard to relate to your delimna of science over belief. You guys were pumped full guilt from the outset while the Protestants could flit from group to group at will if we had a problem with the dogma. Ex, I once attended a local church of Christ and their belief excludes musical instruments as accompaniment for hymns. After a few months of that plus closed communion I went back to the methodists. Have a hell fire preacher? Leave for another sect less judgmental. It was like a xtian buffet (still can’t spell smorgasbord). While Catholics are trapped with no other “catholic split off sect”. I know you’re thinking Hmmm, the Episcopals are kind of catholic-lite but it isn’t quite the same. Kudos to any ex-catholic for their successful break away. And no, angels won’t cry.


Cap’t Jack

Jack,  my experience was not nearly as stereotypical as all you have described. I know what your talking about, but that was never my experience. I was a moderate disciplinary problem in catholic schools from 4-8 grade.  By 5th grade or so I was agnostic, heading to atheism.  The nuns either loved me or hated me.  Funny enough the priest I mainly dealt with was a very open person who didn’t seem to care about my trouble making or my increasingly open profession of doubt.( he had just returned from Vietnam as a Chaplain in the Army)
Religion class was curriculum in all the grades, and by 5th grade or 6th I was arguing about the existence of god with the nuns who taught the class(not in a reasoned way but in a very disruptive, wise-ass way.).  Sometimes it got my hair pulled usually they just kicked me down to the library.
I never felt guilt, and I never remember feeling that whole guilt “thing” everyone always talks about. A meme perhaps? Once my mother got over the minor bewilderment of my atheism, it was no big deal.  I think the nuns, the priests and my mother all thought it was a phase and that eventually I would see the light and embrace christ.
But yada, yada yada…The catholicism I grew up with was pretty mild and seemed to be partly reformed from the social changes of the 60s and 70s.
On another note Jack, I’m moving along with that Oxford US History collection.  It’s going good. Little heavy on politics and religion.(first 3 books anyways)

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