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Best Captain
Posted: 08 October 2012 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Occam. - 08 October 2012 12:27 PM

You have to be careful, because there were also quite a few other captains that showed up.  Some were:  Kelsey Grammer, Dr. Crusher, Q, the woman on another starship when the ship went through a time warp and ended up in a war with the Klingons twenty years earlier, and of course all the Klingon and Romulan ones.

Oh, and if you watch The Big Bang Theory, there’s a few episodes where Howard has the two sides of his subconscious show up to give him advice - An attractive woman and George Takai who has come out as gay.

Occam

Philippa (in the episode deciding whether Data had rights or not, “Measure of a Man”) was a captain or an admiral, as well as a JAG officer, if I remember correctly.  She was a captain, according to Memory Alpha:  http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phillipa_Louvois

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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You’re right, and there were all the visiting Admirals and captains.  One I recall where a woman who was the admiral in charge of finding spies took over the Enterprise and ran a McCarthy-like investigation to prove a young ensign was a Romulan spy.  Gave Picard the opportunity to give one of his, as Q called them, wonderful speeches.

Occam

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Mriana - 08 October 2012 02:32 PM

For me, the best captain is between Picard and Janeway.  I thought Archer was the worst.  Kirk was OK, but IMHO, Picard was better.  Sisko was good and I really can’t complain about him.  I can give good qualities about all of them, except Archer and the only reason I cannot credit Archer as good, is because I don’t consider Enterprise Star Trek.

I agree with you about Picard and Janeway. Definitely the most cerebral of the captains with the strongest moral compasses. Can’t comment about Sisko. I’ve tried three times to get involved in that series and I just can’t get myself to like it. Too much Ferengi.

I am old enough to remember the original Star Trek series in its first run and really got hooked when it went into syndication so Kirk will always get extra points for being the original even if his ethics wouldnt always stand up to scrutiny. I think its fair to put him third.

Even though I also put Archer last he is a close last to Kirk not a distant one in my mind. I disagree with all the hand wringing over Archer that has occured on the many trek forums and now on this thread. The series took a bad turn with all the time travel but the concept was interesting and if you ignore some of the unnecessary canon violations there were some good things in that series. Archer did NOT have the same strong ethical character that later captains did but that was the whole point. He was pre-Kirk, pre-prime directive. If you look at it in that light things really do make sense. Archer made some mistakes and those mistakes are what guided later exploration. The episode where the Enterprise forcefully boards an innocent alien ship and steals their warp core was a great example of that. Too many people wanted Archer to be Picard or Janeway or even Kirk and that would have just been stupid. Archer was a good missing link between a post WWIII world and the federation.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth

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Posted: 08 October 2012 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Occam. - 08 October 2012 03:00 PM

You’re right, and there were all the visiting Admirals and captains.  One I recall where a woman who was the admiral in charge of finding spies took over the Enterprise and ran a McCarthy-like investigation to prove a young ensign was a Romulan spy.  Gave Picard the opportunity to give one of his, as Q called them, wonderful speeches.

Occam

Actually, I don’t think Admiral Satie, in Drumhead, was a captain.  Um… OK she was, but not in that episode, but you are right about the details of the episode.  http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Drumhead_(episode) and a very good speech it was towards the end.

When the first link broken, first speech censored…

“You know, there are some words I’ve known since I was a schoolboy: ’ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.’ Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning. The first time any man’s freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. I fear that today…”
“How dare you! You who consort with Romulans, invoke my father’s name to support your traitorous arguments? It is an offense to everything I hold dear! And to hear those words used to subvert the United Federation of Planets! My father was a great man! His name stands for integrity and principle! You dirty his name when you speak it. He loved the Federation! But you, captain, corrupt it! You undermine our very way of life! I will expose you for what you are! I’ve brought down bigger men than you, Picard!!”
- Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, and Admiral Satie, angrily chastising him for it

Actually, she didn’t take anyone down that day.

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Mriana
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Posted: 08 October 2012 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Mriana - 08 October 2012 02:36 PM
Occam. - 07 October 2012 05:23 PM

1. Picard, 2. Kirk.  The rest don’t count. smile

Occam

[I’ll wait for our real, resident Startrek expert, Mriana, to check in.]

Looking at your rating system, I’m not sure what you meant.  I mean 1. is best, 2. is good.

Thank you, Occam.  I think Janeway counts because she was everything Gene wanted plus.  Majel played #1 in the Cage, (the pilot).  Gene wanted a woman in a command position, but the major networks did not, thus why we see Majel as Nurse Chapel in the TOS series.  So Janeway has that to her credit, plus given that she was the captain.  The rest is Gene wanted the crew to go where no one has gone before, well Voyager did that, with a woman in command and I think she did it well, being out of contact with Star Fleet and all.  The ship and crew were truly on their own and mapping out that quadrant.  Need I say more?

So it could be said that the first time they put a woman behind the “steering wheel” the ship got lost 70.000 lightyears away. grin

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Posted: 08 October 2012 05:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Alexander80 - 08 October 2012 04:30 PM

So it could be said that the first time they put a woman behind the “steering wheel” the ship got lost 70.000 lightyears away. grin

Well in all fairness according to Memory Beta, Janeway commanded several other ships prior to Voyager ( The USS Billings and USS Bonestell) so it wasn’t actually the first time a woman was behind the wheel. My wife is fond of telling me that the only reason she got the crew back safely is that she wasn’t too stubborn to stop and ask for directions.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Alexander80 - 08 October 2012 04:30 PM
Mriana - 08 October 2012 02:36 PM
Occam. - 07 October 2012 05:23 PM

1. Picard, 2. Kirk.  The rest don’t count. smile

Occam

[I’ll wait for our real, resident Startrek expert, Mriana, to check in.]

Looking at your rating system, I’m not sure what you meant.  I mean 1. is best, 2. is good.

Thank you, Occam.  I think Janeway counts because she was everything Gene wanted plus.  Majel played #1 in the Cage, (the pilot).  Gene wanted a woman in a command position, but the major networks did not, thus why we see Majel as Nurse Chapel in the TOS series.  So Janeway has that to her credit, plus given that she was the captain.  The rest is Gene wanted the crew to go where no one has gone before, well Voyager did that, with a woman in command and I think she did it well, being out of contact with Star Fleet and all.  The ship and crew were truly on their own and mapping out that quadrant.  Need I say more?

So it could be said that the first time they put a woman behind the “steering wheel” the ship got lost 70.000 lightyears away. grin

Well, actually, I think she was trying save people and in the acting of saving others, the ship was thrown 70,000 light years away.

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Posted: 08 October 2012 08:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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macgyver - 08 October 2012 05:28 PM
Alexander80 - 08 October 2012 04:30 PM

So it could be said that the first time they put a woman behind the “steering wheel” the ship got lost 70.000 lightyears away. grin

Well in all fairness according to Memory Beta, Janeway commanded several other ships prior to Voyager ( The USS Billings and USS Bonestell) so it wasn’t actually the first time a woman was behind the wheel. My wife is fond of telling me that the only reason she got the crew back safely is that she wasn’t too stubborn to stop and ask for directions.

Do she wasn’t and she even asked the Borg for directions and assistance, until she returned as her older self to destroy the Borg.

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Mriana
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Posted: 08 October 2012 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I remembered it generically, but I knew Mriana would come through with the specifics.  Thanks, Mriana.  I loved to hate the character of of Admiral Satie, and enjoyed the speech and retort.  smile

The speech he gave at Data’s trial overseen by Admiral Phillippa _____ was also great. 

Occam

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Posted: 08 October 2012 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Occam. - 08 October 2012 08:09 PM

I remembered it generically, but I knew Mriana would come through with the specifics.  Thanks, Mriana.  I loved to hate the character of of Admiral Satie, and enjoyed the speech and retort.  smile

The speech he gave at Data’s trial overseen by Admiral Phillippa _____ was also great. 

Occam

That was Measure of a Man, as I said in post #16 and actually, Guinan gets some of the credit for his speech, because she gave him some of the thoughts concerning slavery and all.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 October 2012 09:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Occam. - 08 October 2012 12:27 PM

... the woman on another starship when the ship went through a time warp and ended up in a war with the Klingons twenty years earlier…

You must mean Rachel Garrett, captain of the Enterprise C!  She’s a good choice too.

I also have to take exception to Alexander’s characterization of Picard as an atheist.  I do not believe he was.  He was certainly a humanist, he was given a speech in “Where Silence Has Lease” which raises strong doubts about him being an atheist.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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You, guys, realize that these are merely fictional characters, right?  grin It’s perfectly possible that Picard was neither an atheist nor a theist because the writers and producers just didn’t want to touch that topic. It’s like trying to figure out if Picard suffered from an enlarged prostate, since we don’t really know how many times he would wake up at night to urinate.

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Posted: 10 October 2012 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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George - 10 October 2012 09:33 AM

You, guys, realize that these are merely fictional characters, right?  grin It’s perfectly possible that Picard was neither an atheist nor a theist because the writers and producers just didn’t want to touch that topic. It’s like trying to figure out if Picard suffered from an enlarged prostate, since we don’t really know how many times he would wake up at night to urinate.

NO!  Picard is really!  I can prove he’s real!  J6ZOx.gif

Seriously though, Gene Roddenberry was a humanist and he often put humanism into Star Trek.  A lot of this is stated in the many books about him, including his authorized biography.

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Mriana
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Posted: 11 October 2012 01:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I agree with George, although I will admit a bias towards Picard; just because I think Patrick Stewart is a good actor, and I like a lot of his movies….. way better than Shatner, IMO.

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Posted: 11 October 2012 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I agree with George, although I will admit a bias towards Picard; just because I think Patrick Stewart is a good actor, and I like a lot of his movies….. way better than Shatner, IMO.


Patrick Stewart is an excellent Shakespearian actor and his background shows on Star trek. I like his more laid back style as a contrast to Shatner’s in your face cocky, ego driven Kirk. But in reality (if we can compare the character to reality) that is how a starship captain should act in the 60’s, brash daring to break the mold and try new things whereas, Stewart’s character is more organization man, more technician and not a micromanager. Like them both but Kirk’s still the man!

 

Cap’t Jack

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