5 of 10
5
When it comes to making stupid comments…Republicans can’t seem to help themselves.
Posted: 31 October 2012 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 November 2012 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3254
Joined  2011-08-15

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam


What’s so embarrassing is that recent immigrants are REQUIRED to learn the Constitution and basic Am. hist. AND pass a test before they’re granted citizenship so they are more aware of our basic laws than many natural born citizens. Some states require only 2years of civics and that is in the lower grades. I know this is a sore point for the states righters but some form of national curriculum is needed. European countries have a national standard but here Ed. Is left to the states. Want to know which one ranks 50th overall in Ed? Would you want to send your child to a school there? BTW, we need at least two YEARS of Ed. In civics just to fully explain national state and local gov’t. most people don’t even know the bill of rights, let alone the other 17.

 

Cap’t Jack

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 November 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3326
Joined  2011-11-04
Occam. - 31 October 2012 10:09 PM

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

Though, I don’t expect any support with this notion, as much as I think that civics would be an important course in high school, I think that courses on responsive parenting could be of even more benefit to our society.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 November 2012 08:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  447
Joined  2012-02-02

I think that there should also be comparison between the various state constitutions.  Students wouldn’t need to know all the details of every state constitution, but a comparison of the constitutions that border a particular state, along with unique elements from other states (e.g. which state was the first to give women the right to vote, which state has a section/amendment that no other state has, etc.).  Too many people have no idea of what things are like in other places and this might help to change that.

 Signature 

“There will come a time when it isn’t ‘They’re spying on me through my phone’ anymore. Eventually, it will be ‘My phone is spying on me’.” ― Philip K. Dick

The Atheist in the Trailer Park

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3254
Joined  2011-08-15

I think that there should also be comparison between the various state constitutions.  Students wouldn’t need to know all the details of every state constitution, but a comparison of the constitutions that border a particular state, along with unique elements from other states (e.g. which state was the first to give women the right to vote, which state has a section/amendment that no other state has, etc.).  Too many people have no idea of what things are like in other places and this might help to change that.


Actually that Would’t be a bad idea especially in a Tristate area. We are literally 10 minutes from two states and are able to shop for gas in all three, so knowing state laws in contiguous states would be advantageous for many reasons. Starting with the fact that all state constitutions must conform to the national one, ie. universal civil rights, each state is unique in specific laws ex. Marriage, driving, gun laws (they vary from state to state) and yes voting which is a current bone of contention. And I believe Wyoming was the first state off the top of my aging head! I think Nebraska has a single house legis. Anyway knowing how the national constitution was created would also be helpful. I mean what was the original intent of course and what allowed it to change to meet the problems of the future. The teabaggers want to revert to the original bedrock document and that would make it an anachronistic oddity and not the living document that it was really meant to be.


Cap’t Jack

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3063
Joined  2010-04-26
Thevillageatheist - 02 November 2012 04:57 AM

Actually that Would’t be a bad idea especially in a Tristate area. We are literally 10 minutes from two states and are able to shop for gas in all three, so knowing state laws in contiguous states would be advantageous for many reasons. Starting with the fact that all state constitutions must conform to the national one, ie. universal civil rights, each state is unique in specific laws ex. Marriage, driving, gun laws (they vary from state to state) and yes voting which is a current bone of contention. And I believe Wyoming was the first state off the top of my aging head! I think Nebraska has a single house legis. Anyway knowing how the national constitution was created would also be helpful. I mean what was the original intent of course and what allowed it to change to meet the problems of the future. The teabaggers want to revert to the original bedrock document and that would make it an anachronistic oddity and not the living document that it was really meant to be.


Cap’t Jack

Or we could just abandon the Constitution altogether and use the Bible, thus joining saudi Arabia as the only two countries with no written constitution and a religious text enshrined as a legal document.  A few crazies would love that.

Also, I totally agree that school should be all year round.  Man I loathed the idea as a kid.  I bet you did too. wink

 Signature 

“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7684
Joined  2008-04-11
TimB - 01 November 2012 12:50 PM
Occam. - 31 October 2012 10:09 PM

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

Though, I don’t expect any support with this notion, as much as I think that civics would be an important course in high school, I think that courses on responsive parenting could be of even more benefit to our society.

My son’s school did that in the 11th grade. I agree. You have to take classes to drive, but any idiot can have a child. What causes more damage,  stupid driving or stupid parenting? ‘Nuff said!

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 09:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3254
Joined  2011-08-15

Or we could just abandon the Constitution altogether and use the Bible, thus joining saudi Arabia as the only two countries with no written constitution and a religious text enshrined as a legal document.  A few crazies would love that.

Also, I totally agree that school should be all year round.  Man I loathed the idea as a kid.  I bet you did too.


I don’t want to scare you DM but there are people I know here who would be more than happy to do just that. They want a lot more jeebus and a lot less of that homo liberal ACLU stuff. Many of them also homeschool their kids so as not to expose them to that godless public learning. Get em young and they’ll blow themselves up for their god. But that works both ways too. Teach them how to think and research and the questions begin! What we really need is a course in skeptism. And yeah, year round school in the 50’s wasn’t even considered so I didn’t have to scrunch up my nose at the thought.


Cap’t Jack

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 10:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3326
Joined  2011-11-04
asanta - 02 November 2012 09:13 AM
TimB - 01 November 2012 12:50 PM
Occam. - 31 October 2012 10:09 PM

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

Though, I don’t expect any support with this notion, as much as I think that civics would be an important course in high school, I think that courses on responsive parenting could be of even more benefit to our society.

My son’s school did that in the 11th grade. I agree. You have to take classes to drive, but any idiot can have a child. What causes more damage,  stupid driving or stupid parenting? ‘Nuff said!

Yea!  Thanks Asanta.  It’s nice to know that mine is not the sole voice, crying in this wilderness.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 11:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29
TimB - 02 November 2012 10:18 AM
asanta - 02 November 2012 09:13 AM
TimB - 01 November 2012 12:50 PM
Occam. - 31 October 2012 10:09 PM

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

Though, I don’t expect any support with this notion, as much as I think that civics would be an important course in high school, I think that courses on responsive parenting could be of even more benefit to our society.

My son’s school did that in the 11th grade. I agree. You have to take classes to drive, but any idiot can have a child. What causes more damage,  stupid driving or stupid parenting? ‘Nuff said!

Yea!  Thanks Asanta.  It’s nice to know that mine is not the sole voice, crying in this wilderness.

And if the Lysenko way doesn’t work out, there is always the Hitler way.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3326
Joined  2011-11-04
George - 02 November 2012 11:01 AM
TimB - 02 November 2012 10:18 AM
asanta - 02 November 2012 09:13 AM
TimB - 01 November 2012 12:50 PM
Occam. - 31 October 2012 10:09 PM

When I went to school also in CA, but before the dinosaurs, only flat worms (in the mid 1940s), we had to take and pass TWO semesters of civics.  And i certainly agree, Asanta.  We need to make learning about how our government works a strong part of our high school education.

Occam

Though, I don’t expect any support with this notion, as much as I think that civics would be an important course in high school, I think that courses on responsive parenting could be of even more benefit to our society.

My son’s school did that in the 11th grade. I agree. You have to take classes to drive, but any idiot can have a child. What causes more damage,  stupid driving or stupid parenting? ‘Nuff said!

Yea!  Thanks Asanta.  It’s nice to know that mine is not the sole voice, crying in this wilderness.

And if the Lysenko way doesn’t work out, there is always the Hitler way.

Wow, it is amazing that you equate teaching prospective parents how to be more effective nurturers of their prospective children with Lysenkoism. And it boggles the mind that you think that high school kids learning how to someday be effective parents is somehow such a threatening idea that you throw in the Hitler card.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29

It’s not threatening at all, because it will never work. The only other option is eugenics, the “Hitler way.” The first one is a waste of time and resources, the second one is disgusting.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3254
Joined  2011-08-15

And if the Lysenko way doesn’t work out, there is always the Hitler way.


I know you’re stirring the pot George but this should interest you geneticlally at least. Is effective parenting nature or nurture? If nature then no matter what we do to educate the prepubescent they will still refuse to learn, have children at will, use the system for income (the more you have the more you get) and continue this pattern and as the good book says, “the poor will always be with us”. Or nurture, then educating them to be more responsible by using birth control measures and at least waiting to have kids until financially able to take care of them. Why not at least try the education path and hope for the best? Hitler’s solution was much easier granted, just shoot whom you’ve deemed a drag on your “perfect” aryan society. You could have mentioned Pavlov too. Mindless conditioning.

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29
Thevillageatheist - 02 November 2012 12:19 PM

Is effective parenting nature or nurture?

Neither, because “effective parenting” is a myth.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 November 2012 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4108
Joined  2006-11-28

Really, is there any point in discussing this with you George? Any conversation that begins with a Hitler reference is not likely to involve a substantive, open-minded exchange of ideas. And sadly, the time when you seemed willing to listen to anything anyone else had to say on the subject of genes, environment, and behavior appears to be long past. :-(

 Signature 

The SkeptVet Blog
You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place. 
Johnathan Swift

Profile
 
 
   
5 of 10
5