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Noon or midnight
Posted: 27 October 2012 11:32 PM   [ Ignore ]
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When registering for this forum the security question was,  “What is another word for 12PM?”  What a question!  I2:00, whether it follows 11:59 AM or 11:59 PM is technically neither AM nor PM.   

This is what Wikipedia says:


“While computers and digital clocks display “00:00 a.m.” and “00:00 p.m.”, those notations provide no clear and unambiguous way to distinguish between midnight and noon. It is actually grammatically incorrect to use “a.m.” and “p.m.” when referring to 12:00. The abbreviation a.m. stands for ante meridiem or before noon and p.m. stands for post meridiem or after noon. Since noon is neither after noon nor before noon, and midnight can equally be twelve hours before and after noon, neither abbreviation is correct (although the length of the error is determined by the smallest unit of time — 12:00:01 p.m. would be correctly notated).
The most common ways to represent these times are, (a) to use a 24-hour clock (0:00 and 12:00, 24:00), (b) to use “12 noon” or “12 midnight”, although unless the person is referring to a general time and not a specific day, “12 midnight” is still ambiguous, (c) to specify the time between two successive days or dates (Midnight Saturday/Sunday or Midnight December 14/15), and (d) to use “12:01 a.m.” or “11:59 p.m.,” as is used where the ambiguity can have serious consequences, such as in contracts and insurance policies.”

I happened to guess right, but I think the CFI blog registration should use a different question. This is just too ambiguous.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Spoken like a truly obsessive critical thinker.

grin

I favor the military time approach, so a potential replacement question might be “What is another word for 1200 as it applies to military time?”

Of course, not everyone knows how that works. hmmm

I am even more in favor of everyone using only GMT and getting rid of time zones altogether. Like that’s going to happen any time soon.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 28 October 2012 01:24 AM

Spoken like a truly obsessive critical thinker.

grin

I take that as a compliment. smile

I favor the military time approach, so a potential replacement question might be “What is another word for 1200 as it applies to military time?”

Of course, not everyone knows how that works. hmmm

I am even more in favor of everyone using only GMT and getting rid of time zones altogether. Like that’s going to happen any time soon.

I agree on all points.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I’m on your side Lois. Even the Associated Press Style Guide states there is no such thing as 12 a.m. or 12 p.m. The correct usage is Noon or Midnight.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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That is one reason I like to use the 24 hour system instead of the 12 hour one.  One sort of gets around that unless the person you are communicating with doesn’t understand the 24 hour system.  Hospitals and other business, besides the military use the 24 hour system, probably for that purpose.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Ah yes, another problem with our website program that has only one major advantage:  It’s free.  snake

Welcome, Lois.  I wonder how many prospective members guessed wrong and, therefore, we lost.

Occam

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Posted: 28 October 2012 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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How about if we all just decide to call midnight 12 a.m. and noon 12 p.m.?

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Posted: 28 October 2012 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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TimB - 28 October 2012 04:28 PM

How about if we all just decide to call midnight 12 a.m. and noon 12 p.m.?

That’s still not quite accurate.  12:01 would be the start of the new day or the midday, but even that is a bit inaccurate too.

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Posted: 28 October 2012 09:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Mriana - 28 October 2012 04:38 PM
TimB - 28 October 2012 04:28 PM

How about if we all just decide to call midnight 12 a.m. and noon 12 p.m.?

That’s still not quite accurate.  12:01 would be the start of the new day or the midday, but even that is a bit inaccurate too.

For convenience sake and to avoid confusion, even if it is not quite accurate, how about we all just decide to call midnight 12 a.m. and noon 12 p.m.?

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Posted: 28 October 2012 11:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Yeah, you poor Americans… As continental European I would not have this problem, were it not the case that so many computer stuff comes from the USA and so you are exporting your problem.

My suggestion: 0:00 always means midnight, 12:00 always noon, independent of the am or pm.

PS
The Oracle database calls midnight 12:00 AM, noon is 12:00 PM. Just tried it out…

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Posted: 29 October 2012 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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GdB - 28 October 2012 11:36 PM

Yeah, you poor Americans… As continental European I would not have this problem, were it not the case that so many computer stuff comes from the USA and so you are exporting your problem.

My suggestion: 0:00 always means midnight, 12:00 always noon, independent of the am or pm.

PS
The Oracle database calls midnight 12:00 AM, noon is 12:00 PM. Just tried it out…

Don’t tell me.  You’re also on the metric system.  Well at least we Americans drive on the right side of the road.

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Posted: 29 October 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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The Oracle database calls midnight 12:00 AM, noon is 12:00 PM. Just tried it out…

I know this may sound provencial to you Europeans but I thought everyone knew the above. This is how we differentiate the two. Twelve NOON and twelve MIDNIGHT Not AM or PM. I personally find that too confusing. Zulu time as well only because it’s not the norm here.

 

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Posted: 29 October 2012 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Well you know about Americans, why make it easy when you can make it difficult?  Ah, yes…...we are “special”...... cheese

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Posted: 30 October 2012 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Mriana - 28 October 2012 10:24 AM

That is one reason I like to use the 24 hour system instead of the 12 hour one.  One sort of gets around that unless the person you are communicating with doesn’t understand the 24 hour system.  Hospitals and other business, besides the military use the 24 hour system, probably for that purpose.


I agree, but since most of the US population is wedded to the 12-hour clock, I don’t see that happening soon.  Americans havan’t even managed to get onto the Metric system, like most of the rest of the Western Hemisphere.

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Posted: 30 October 2012 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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TimB - 28 October 2012 04:28 PM

How about if we all just decide to call midnight 12 a.m. and noon 12 p.m.?

We could but people would continue to get it wrong, anyway.  Maybe we need a mnemonic. 

Lois

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Posted: 30 October 2012 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Moved it.

[ Edited: 30 October 2012 08:40 AM by Dead Monky ]
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