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Is Atheism doomed to extinction?
Posted: 13 November 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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sobpatrick - 09 November 2012 08:00 PM

responding to your angst comment-

Not very well.  Though I am curious about why you think kids being on Facebook and not playing outside has anything to with atheism, science, or a fine-tuned universe.  Or even happiness.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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Dead Monky - 13 November 2012 09:21 AM
sobpatrick - 09 November 2012 08:00 PM

responding to your angst comment-

Not very well.  Though I am curious about why you think kids being on Facebook and not playing outside has anything to with atheism, science, or a fine-tuned universe.  Or even happiness.

Don’t know about that, but I know sitting at the computer instead of playing outside gives kids fat arses.
OK the sodas help too.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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Darron:

Older generations complaining about younger generations goes back at least as far as our written history, and probably much further than that. The younger generation is no better or worse than us old farts. I probably have a skewed persp.ective because I am in college, but the younger people I know are very engaged and motivated, and many of them openly discuss their disdain for religion

Agreed, I laugh my butt off when I hear people of my generation saying the exact same thing about these crazy kids, using almost the exact words that I can remember my grandfathers using about my father’s generation.  Some things in the world never change no matter how much “science” advances.  LOL

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Posted: 13 November 2012 11:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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Some things do change, Gary. My father used to get on me for playing my stereo too loud. That changed to my son getting on me for playing my stereo too loud. I solved that by purchasing a good set of headphones.  LOL

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Posted: 13 November 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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DarronS - 13 November 2012 11:21 AM

Some things do change, Gary. My father used to get on me for playing my stereo too loud. That changed to my son getting on me for playing my stereo too loud. I solved that by purchasing a good set of headphones.  LOL

Found a way to iritate the kid did you.  wink

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Posted: 14 November 2012 06:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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sobpatrick - 29 October 2012 10:46 PM

Is Atheism doomed to extinction?

Though it may be a fact that it is the fastest growing religion (referred to in the media - I would call it a belief system), most atheists I know have few or no children, while religious people are having them by the dozens.  Added to this is my personal belief that science is at a point where faith and belief are playing a much larger role.  300 years ago there were laws, 100 years ago they became theories, currently most of it is hypothesis with the future looking more and more like wide held beliefs and then faith.
Furthermore, I also see science facing what seems to be several impassable walls

1)We have now seen as far as we ever will see in the universe and every question seems to just lead to more questions which can never be answered (I think it’s called the hubble bubble)
2) We have also seen as small as we will ever see - we will likely never build a larger Hadron collider - leading only to guesses and speculation (yes I know they’re using the entire universe as a LHC but how could you ever have controlled results?)
3) The credibility in science is in jeopardy as any one can check out youtube and see Stephen Hawkings get his intellectual butt kicked by Leo Susskind, or have just about any current theory presented by a Phd and challenged by another Phd.  How can there be a concensus?
4) Science is getting crazier and crazier
- Notions of singularities condencing a billion times the matter of the entire universe into an electron sized particle, annialating 99.9999999 of it in a trillionth of a second sound crazier then a bible story
- quintillions upon quintillions of other, unprovable universes existing just to explain the extreme fine tuning of ours.  Lame - this does a huge discredit to science

Besides these plights which science has to contend with is my belief that sceptism is becoming sciences worst enemy.
While I would like to say I believe in evolution I find some fundamental flaws in it due to sceptism.

1)  Why advocate the theory of evolution, but not promote the completely logical notion of higher evolved beings?  By not promoting it evolutionists appear to be hiding something, they seem to be defensive or just plain ignorant.  Why say that we could create a monkey cage in six days but hide from the idea that a higher evolved being could create our cage in six days?  I’m not saying it did - just saying why couldn’t it?  And why spend so much energy trying to dismiss it??
2) While I completely understand the notion of survival of the fitest, I can’t see why a molicule would want survive -let alone 6.4 billion of them want to line up extremely specifically in 60 trillion different cells in our body.  Call me stupid - but you can’t get a million Phds to line up specifically, let alone trillions of non-intellegent specks -
3) If you believe in evolution you need to believe we will evolve out of the concept of it.  Just as our brain evolved out of an protazoa - future intellegence -(if there is such a thing) will have no use for our primordial concepts
4) There are 60 trillion cells in the human body. Each cell has billions if not trillions of parts and functions.  No reasonable person would say that paris or new york just happen without design.  How can a reasonable person say 60 trillion paris’s just happen?  Yes I know fractals - another lame answer that will do more harm than good to science.

So let me know what you think - I like most atheist as you seem to be pretty smart people, with a desire to know and a good sence of fairness.
Thanks
Patrick

I agree Atheism is toast but for different reasons. Atheism as an ideology can only be held by fundamentalist blind faith because it is irrational, just like any fundamentalist belief system held by blind faith. Accepting the concept of infinity destroys the atheist ideology. In an infinite time-space continuum ANY combination of anything is possible including God. This is the logic of infinity and it destroys the atheist position that claims no god exists. This is being done, btw, in the face of 40,000 years of human beings claiming to experience spiritual forces as well as the whole of Western Civilization evolving around religious beliefs plus physical evidence within brain functions pointing to human evolution evolving spiritual reception capability, and why would that be if there is nothing there as atheists claim for our brains to process? But the woes of atheism don’t end here as the ultimate killer of the atheist ideology is the logic of history. Human history shows human knowledge and human abilities to impact our world has greatly increased and shows no sign of retreating from increasing knowledge and capability. In 200 years humankind has gone from horse and buggies to landing human beings on the moon and duplicating the power of the sun on earth. Any human being from Jesus’ time would look upon our abilities as if we were gods. Now logic of history says unless we are clobbered by an asteroid which we are already preparing to face and global warming will not destroy civilization even if changing the population regions and creating food shortages until adaptation to new climate occurs and it will occur because we are smart and evolving, the factor Atheism leaves out of their ideology and the factor that destroys it by the logic of history. That logic tells the smarter thinker that if human beings can do god-like things in 2012, what will human beings be able to do in 3012? 6012? 10,012? When someone or something can turn thought into matter they have essentially become a god and the logic of history is pointing that way. Way back in 1956 humankind predicted such ability in the movie Forbidden Planet, the prototype for the Star Wars series. In that movie there was a machine powered by the nuclear interior of the planet that could transform human thought into material reality. It was called the Krell Machine.

I’m sorry to point it out but really, Atheism is now relegated to museum status as one of humankind’s religious belief systems that can only be held by ignoring science and logic. Only agnosticism follows the Scientific Method and is thereby a valid philosophical method of inquiry. But I doubt this message of doom will penetrate atheist minds which are trained to ignore anything that counters the belief system.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 07:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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arielmessenger - 14 November 2012 06:54 AM

In an infinite time-space continuum ANY combination of anything is possible including God. This is the logic of infinity and it destroys the atheist position that claims no god exists. This is being done, btw, in the face of 40,000 years of human beings claiming to experience spiritual forces as well as the whole of Western Civilization evolving around religious beliefs plus physical evidence within brain functions pointing to human evolution evolving spiritual reception capability, and why would that be if there is nothing there as atheists claim for our brains to process?

Your ignorance of not knowing why some of us might have evolved to be religious is a proof that atheism is wrong?  smirk

BTW, as far as I know it is the religious who claim time is infinitive—at least for God it is. We have a rough idea of how old the universe is and how much older it will get before it ceases to exist, so I don’t know where you’re getting the nonsensical idea about atheists believing in “an infinite time-space continuum” from.

[ Edited: 14 November 2012 07:28 AM by George ]
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Posted: 14 November 2012 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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arielmessenger, that was a nice little response you offered.

The problem?

Everything you said is wrong, or worse, used in an extremely misleading context. (Half truths and distortions are absolutly the worst sort of lie.)

Now, would you care to try again?

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Posted: 14 November 2012 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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arielmessenger - 14 November 2012 06:54 AM
sobpatrick - 29 October 2012 10:46 PM

Is Atheism doomed to extinction?

Though it may be a fact that it is the fastest growing religion (referred to in the media - I would call it a belief system), most atheists I know have few or no children, while religious people are having them by the dozens.  Added to this is my personal belief that science is at a point where faith and belief are playing a much larger role.  300 years ago there were laws, 100 years ago they became theories, currently most of it is hypothesis with the future looking more and more like wide held beliefs and then faith.
Furthermore, I also see science facing what seems to be several impassable walls

1)We have now seen as far as we ever will see in the universe and every question seems to just lead to more questions which can never be answered (I think it’s called the hubble bubble)
2) We have also seen as small as we will ever see - we will likely never build a larger Hadron collider - leading only to guesses and speculation (yes I know they’re using the entire universe as a LHC but how could you ever have controlled results?)
3) The credibility in science is in jeopardy as any one can check out youtube and see Stephen Hawkings get his intellectual butt kicked by Leo Susskind, or have just about any current theory presented by a Phd and challenged by another Phd.  How can there be a concensus?
4) Science is getting crazier and crazier
- Notions of singularities condencing a billion times the matter of the entire universe into an electron sized particle, annialating 99.9999999 of it in a trillionth of a second sound crazier then a bible story
- quintillions upon quintillions of other, unprovable universes existing just to explain the extreme fine tuning of ours.  Lame - this does a huge discredit to science

Besides these plights which science has to contend with is my belief that sceptism is becoming sciences worst enemy.
While I would like to say I believe in evolution I find some fundamental flaws in it due to sceptism.

1)  Why advocate the theory of evolution, but not promote the completely logical notion of higher evolved beings?  By not promoting it evolutionists appear to be hiding something, they seem to be defensive or just plain ignorant.  Why say that we could create a monkey cage in six days but hide from the idea that a higher evolved being could create our cage in six days?  I’m not saying it did - just saying why couldn’t it?  And why spend so much energy trying to dismiss it??
2) While I completely understand the notion of survival of the fitest, I can’t see why a molicule would want survive -let alone 6.4 billion of them want to line up extremely specifically in 60 trillion different cells in our body.  Call me stupid - but you can’t get a million Phds to line up specifically, let alone trillions of non-intellegent specks -
3) If you believe in evolution you need to believe we will evolve out of the concept of it.  Just as our brain evolved out of an protazoa - future intellegence -(if there is such a thing) will have no use for our primordial concepts
4) There are 60 trillion cells in the human body. Each cell has billions if not trillions of parts and functions.  No reasonable person would say that paris or new york just happen without design.  How can a reasonable person say 60 trillion paris’s just happen?  Yes I know fractals - another lame answer that will do more harm than good to science.

So let me know what you think - I like most atheist as you seem to be pretty smart people, with a desire to know and a good sence of fairness.
Thanks
Patrick

I agree Atheism is toast but for different reasons. Atheism as an ideology can only be held by fundamentalist blind faith because it is irrational, just like any fundamentalist belief system held by blind faith. Accepting the concept of infinity destroys the atheist ideology. In an infinite time-space continuum ANY combination of anything is possible including God. This is the logic of infinity and it destroys the atheist position that claims no god exists. This is being done, btw, in the face of 40,000 years of human beings claiming to experience spiritual forces as well as the whole of Western Civilization evolving around religious beliefs plus physical evidence within brain functions pointing to human evolution evolving spiritual reception capability, and why would that be if there is nothing there as atheists claim for our brains to process? But the woes of atheism don’t end here as the ultimate killer of the atheist ideology is the logic of history. Human history shows human knowledge and human abilities to impact our world has greatly increased and shows no sign of retreating from increasing knowledge and capability. In 200 years humankind has gone from horse and buggies to landing human beings on the moon and duplicating the power of the sun on earth. Any human being from Jesus’ time would look upon our abilities as if we were gods. Now logic of history says unless we are clobbered by an asteroid which we are already preparing to face and global warming will not destroy civilization even if changing the population regions and creating food shortages until adaptation to new climate occurs and it will occur because we are smart and evolving, the factor Atheism leaves out of their ideology and the factor that destroys it by the logic of history. That logic tells the smarter thinker that if human beings can do god-like things in 2012, what will human beings be able to do in 3012? 6012? 10,012? When someone or something can turn thought into matter they have essentially become a god and the logic of history is pointing that way. Way back in 1956 humankind predicted such ability in the movie Forbidden Planet, the prototype for the Star Wars series. In that movie there was a machine powered by the nuclear interior of the planet that could transform human thought into material reality. It was called the Krell Machine.

I’m sorry to point it out but really, Atheism is now relegated to museum status as one of humankind’s religious belief systems that can only be held by ignoring science and logic. Only agnosticism follows the Scientific Method and is thereby a valid philosophical method of inquiry. But I doubt this message of doom will penetrate atheist minds which are trained to ignore anything that counters the belief system.

Good points.  I’ve never understood the atheist mindset - though completely understand agnosticism.  What amazes me is not how much our perspective of the universe has changed over 40 000 yrs but over forty years.  The drastic change the human brain goes through from infancy to adulthood should make more people question their perspective and make zero conclusions about anything.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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test

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Posted: 14 November 2012 03:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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George - 14 November 2012 07:24 AM
arielmessenger - 14 November 2012 06:54 AM

In an infinite time-space continuum ANY combination of anything is possible including God. This is the logic of infinity and it destroys the atheist position that claims no god exists. This is being done, btw, in the face of 40,000 years of human beings claiming to experience spiritual forces as well as the whole of Western Civilization evolving around religious beliefs plus physical evidence within brain functions pointing to human evolution evolving spiritual reception capability, and why would that be if there is nothing there as atheists claim for our brains to process?

Your ignorance of not knowing why some of us might have evolved to be religious is a proof that atheism is wrong?  smirk

BTW, as far as I know it is the religious who claim time is infinitive—at least for God it is. We have a rough idea of how old the universe is and how much older it will get before it ceases to exist, so I don’t know where you’re getting the nonsensical idea about atheists believing in “an infinite time-space continuum” from.

Hmmm..my post disappeared..Here it is again. You need to read up on the Big Crunch theory that makes the universe a recycled phenomena that is paradoxically infinite and finite at the same time. From Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation the universe is recycled continuously. Within its time-space continuum time and space expand from the original Big Bang until the juice runs out and the universal expansion reverses direction. Within the universe black holes continually recycle matter and energy and all the lost material and energy gets coordinated in time and space and then is spewed back out as the Big Bang beginning’s blast of hydrogen atoms that then go on to coalesce into gas clouds, then proto-stars and planets, which live until their solar material is spent and collapses as dying stars going nova and then black holes, a steady-state vacuuming of stars and planets going on all the time within a greater recycling system that forms and reforms the universe from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole ending.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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arielmessenger - 14 November 2012 03:51 PM

You need to read up on the Big Crunch theory that makes the universe a recycled phenomena that is paradoxically infinite and finite at the same time. From Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation the universe is recycled continuously. Within its time-space continuum time and space expand from the original Big Bang until the juice runs out and the universal expansion reverses direction. Within the universe black holes continually recycle matter and energy and all the lost material and energy gets coordinated in time and space and then is spewed back out as the Big Bang beginning’s blast of hydrogen atoms that then go on to coalesce into gas clouds, then proto-stars and planets, which live until their solar material is spent and collapses as dying stars going nova and then black holes, a steady-state vacuuming of stars and planets going on all the time within a greater recycling system that forms and reforms the universe from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole ending.

You need to read up on modern cosmology (post-1998) instead of basing your beliefs on outdated ideas. Wikipedia has a good starter page: Accelerating Universe.

Instead of collapsing, the Universe will continue expanding ever faster until it reaches the state of ultimate entropy. Look up “heat death of the universe” on Wikipedia. Entropy always wins.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 04:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
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Good points.

No, they’re not.

I’ve never understood the atheist mindset

Atheism is a blank slate. Null program. A lack of belief. A baby is an atheist in that a baby is a blank slate with a lack of belief.

We’ve explained all of this to you before. What element in the above sequence escapes you?

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Posted: 14 November 2012 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 14 November 2012 02:51 PM

arielmessenger, that was a nice little response you offered.

The problem?

Everything you said is wrong, or worse, used in an extremely misleading context. (Half truths and distortions are absolutly the worst sort of lie.)

Now, would you care to try again?

Everything wrong?  Try and be specific and then offer a corrected answer that can’t be challeged by science

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Posted: 14 November 2012 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
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arielmessenger - 14 November 2012 06:54 AM

... physical evidence within brain functions pointing to human evolution evolving spiritual reception capability…

This, for one, Patrick. The corrected answer is people have searched for such a brain receptor and and have not found one.

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