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Is Atheism doomed to extinction?
Posted: 18 November 2012 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 286 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 18 November 2012 07:00 AM

Absolutely, any scientist will tell you that. There are many phenomena out there that have no explanation as yet. But like the Higgs-Bosun particle, we begin with speculation, then hypothesis, then on to theory. This as you know this is a slow and laborious process but it’s now never ending. Will science eventually solve every mystery? stay tuned as we used to say in the 60’s but it has a very good track record so far don’t you think?

Cap’t Jack

We have computer programs for almost everything. But not everything. We won’t have computer programs solving the halting problem. We won’t have scientific method to be applied to scientific method itself.

Let X be the statement “Science knows everything”. X is a metascientific statement about science. If X is true, it must also be false, because we have found at least one statement that science doesn’t know about. Everything is more than what science can tell us. This still means science is wonderful. It will solve millions of mysteries (btw, do we know yet why the boson found at the LHC has a mass of about 126 GeV?). But there will always be mysteries beyond the reach of science. There is knowledge beyond testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 287 ]
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George, deists are not concerned with purpose and with religion. So maybe I’m something like a Christian deist, because I don’t believe in a God performing miracles by breaking the natural laws. Is God real? I don’t know. I believe God exists, but I can’t know for sure. Maybe I’m a Christian deist agnostic. Are snakes real? Yes, science can tell us this. Are talking snakes real? No, science can tell us this. Did Jesus walk on water? No, science can tell us this. See the other thread for the “watching kids die” part.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 288 ]
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dansmith62 - 18 November 2012 10:17 AM

George, deists are not concerned with purpose and with religion. So maybe I’m something like a Christian deist, because I don’t believe in a God performing miracles by breaking the natural laws. Is God real? I don’t know. I believe God exists, but I can’t know for sure. Maybe I’m a Christian deist agnostic. Are snakes real? Yes, science can tell us this. Are talking snakes real? No, science can tell us this. Did Jesus walk on water? No, science can tell us this. See the other thread for the “watching kids die” part.

Well, science also tells us that there is no evidence that God exists. So I am not really sure why a belief in a talking snake is any different from a belief in God. Actually, if you think about it, the existence of a talking snake is a lot more plausible than the existence of God. A talking snake could be a result of some super-duper-punctuated-equilibrium mutation.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 289 ]
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Let X be the statement “Science knows everything”. X is a metascientific statement about science. If X is true, it must also be false, because we have found at least one statement that science doesn’t know about. Everything is more than what science can tell us. This still means science is wonderful. It will solve millions of mysteries (btw, do we know yet why the boson found at the LHC has a mass of about 126 GeV?). But there will always be mysteries beyond the reach of science. There is knowledge beyond testable explanations and predictions about the universe.


Ok, but you’re building your case on a false premise because science doesn’t know everything and probably won’t in our lifetime or even our grandchidren’s. And yes there is more than what is known and what’s more, science has led us to this conclusion by increasing our knowledge to the point that we KNOW that we don’t know everything. One answer only leads to more questions and on to the next quest. ( as an example of a superlative mystery why not use the"oh my god! Particle?) there will always be mysteries and there will always be scientists ready to uncover their causes, not relegate them to metaphysics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh-My-God_particle


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 18 November 2012 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 290 ]
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Arielmessenger,
I think my in-your-face style which comes with the Jewish Christian prophesy bearing job description has rattled some of you and you atheists are actually more p.o.‘d with me because a theist has bested you guys in logic and you weren’t expecting that, especially logic applied to spiritual phenomena being another of the invisible forces that effect the physical that human beings will eventually find ways to measure. In short, I didn’t even have to talk about the reality of God in order to simply point out atheism’s fatal flaw, its Achilles Heel, the rushing to judgment without adequate information. Human science knowledge at the year 1812 could not explain the physics of many phenomena and human science knowledge of spiritual forces at 2012 can in no way be taken as the final say in the matter. What is known is the logic of history.

Your arrogance has not rattled anyone, except a slight worry that your unfounded but absolute certainty makes you dangerously deranged. It allows for the rise of the Inquisition, the Crusades and yes, Fatwahs, just like in the dark ages when religion ruled Europe and still today in the Islam. You are hopelessly trying intimidate much better minds than yours, but your logic is fatally flawed and your schoolyard “in-your-face style” arguments reveal your childish immaturity. School is out friend, you are dealing with adults now.

Frankly, I am tired of your immature rants. Your disrespect just compounds the utter fantasy world which you call “the logic of history” and makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the merits.

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 03:47 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 18 November 2012 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 291 ]
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Write4U - 18 November 2012 03:45 PM

Arielmessenger,
I think my in-your-face style which comes with the Jewish Christian prophesy bearing job description has rattled some of you and you atheists are actually more p.o.‘d with me because a theist has bested you guys in logic and you weren’t expecting that, especially logic applied to spiritual phenomena being another of the invisible forces that effect the physical that human beings will eventually find ways to measure. In short, I didn’t even have to talk about the reality of God in order to simply point out atheism’s fatal flaw, its Achilles Heel, the rushing to judgment without adequate information. Human science knowledge at the year 1812 could not explain the physics of many phenomena and human science knowledge of spiritual forces at 2012 can in no way be taken as the final say in the matter. What is known is the logic of history.

Your arrogance has not rattled anyone, except a slight worry that your unfounded but absolute certainty makes you dangerously deranged. It allows for the rise of the Inquisition, the Crusades and yes, Fatwahs, just like in the dark ages when religion ruled Europe and still today in the Islam. You are hopelessly trying intimidate much better minds than yours, but your logic is fatally flawed and your schoolyard “in-your-face style” arguments reveal your childish immaturity. School is out friend, you are dealing with adults now.

Frankly, I am tired of your immature rants. Your disrespect just compounds the utter fantasy world which you call “the logic of history” and makes it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the merits.

The reason prophets have to be aggressive is because people like their ideological or theological security blankets, like you atheists have your science blankets now worn down to shreds, and they don’t like anyone taking even those remnant pieces away from them. Makes ‘em made and they start calling names and doing everything they can to stop the theft of their security blanket.

I have advice and two words for you, writes4-u, compost your slander and you yourself, Grow Up. Stop name-calling as your pitiful defense and stop sniveling and face the music: Atheism was always a bad idea. Agnosticism is the only scientifically valid philosophy of inquiry. Atheism has no logical proof of its claim anymore than religions can make their claims. Both ideologies can only be held by blind faith that ignores the overwhelming evidence that human knowledge advances following the evolution of advancing consciousness that includes, sorry to counter the atheist lie, spiritual consciousness ability hardwired into our human brains. No atheist now can refute this biological fact just as they cannot refute 40,000 years of intense human interest and activity in spiritual consciousness. Only blind faith fundamentalist belief can hold the atheist position because it’s always going to be irrational as long as no atheist alive can prove there is no God and no spiritual reality. Security blanket is kaput. Only becoming a mensch and allowing the great weight of religious activity in human beings to register that there may be a purpose in it after all. And of course there is: Modeling better human morality through the spiritual experiences reported by prophesy bearers, an evolutionary journey that probably will never end until humanity has fulfilled its destiny, to become one with God.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 292 ]
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arielmessenger, do you have brown eyes?

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Posted: 18 November 2012 05:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 293 ]
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I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were an honest to god prophet. That changes everything.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 294 ]
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Why do I feel like I am reading some bizarre sci-fi and fantasy mixed literature?  Spock’s brother thought he found God, but it only turned out to be illusion and it was better entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnxvKJAv5Ik&

The rest of the scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweSLmSgO-k&

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 05:58 PM by Mriana ]
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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 295 ]
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Since our guest like Star Trek so much, here is another scene from TNG that he might enjoy watching too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6NPq_kPSUM&

Just for more fun, here’s yet another fascinating one from TNG (sorry I couldn’t find the English version, but Kami works too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiQxA1WnV98

Then there is “Who Mourns for Adonis”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGK3fuD5Kw

Of course there are more episodes in which the Enterprise crew defeats so-called gods.  If you really think that Sci-fi predicts various things and you love Gene Roddenberry as much as you say you do, then you would know, he was a humanist and filled the show with humanistic philosophy and science, disproving the gods in various episodes.

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 06:38 PM by Mriana ]
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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 296 ]
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I agree Mriana, I mentioned that very thing back on post# 185. So we have a prophet here? You’re in good company with hmmm let’s see, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Mary Baker Eddy and others who were personally contacted by god to lead HIS people to a better (fill in blank here) if only they follow the twisted “logic” of the cult leader. All I can post in response is that you won’t find an atheist in any of them for obvious reasons, ie lack of blind faith. BTW, this is a parting shot; no need to respond.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 297 ]
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Atheism was always a bad idea. Agnosticism is the only scientifically valid philosophy of inquiry.

Atheism is not an idea. You keep on trumpeting what it isn’t as opposed to acknowladging what it really is.

A lack of belief.

Period.

Until you come to grips with this, you’ll continue to be wrong about everything. (So will sobpatrick.)

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 298 ]
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So we have a prophet here? You’re in good company with hmmm let’s see, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Mary Baker Eddy

Ahhhhhhhhh yes….known swindlers! ( And at least L Ron was honest about his religion being a scam.)

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 299 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 18 November 2012 06:26 PM

I agree Mriana, I mentioned that very thing back on post# 185. So we have a prophet here? You’re in good company with hmmm let’s see, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Mary Baker Eddy and others who were personally contacted by god to lead HIS people to a better (fill in blank here) if only they follow the twisted “logic” of the cult leader. All I can post in response is that you won’t find an atheist in any of them for obvious reasons, ie lack of blind faith. BTW, this is a parting shot; no need to respond.

Cap’t Jack

Yeah.  Prophet my butt.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 300 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 18 November 2012 06:36 PM

So we have a prophet here? You’re in good company with hmmm let’s see, Joseph Smith, L. Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Mary Baker Eddy

Ahhhhhhhhh yes….known swindlers! ( And at least L Ron was honest about his religion being a scam.)

L Ron Hubbard was a lousy prophet and a lousy sci-fi writer. Gene ran circles around him.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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