Koran interpretation promotes violence against women
Posted: 06 November 2012 04:05 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I live in South Africa and about a year ago I struck on an idea on how to use our secular state institutions such as the Human Rights Commission and the Commission for Gender Equality to act against interpretations of scripture that promoted violence against women.

In my case I laid a complaint with the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) and the Commission for Gender Equality (CGE) against a famous interpretation of the Koran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali where he interprets verse 4:34 to read as:
“As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience seek not against them means of annoyance.”

The reason I laid a complaint against this specific interpretation was because:

1. It was the only interpreted verse that prima facie advocated violence against women as other interpretations of violence was either conducted by God or by the state or by prophets that had already passed on.
2.  I laid a specific complaint against a specific interpretation so as not to allow the SAHRC and CGE the ability to reject my complaint had I laid a general complaint of violence against the Koran or Bible or Torah.

I requested the SAHRC and the CGE to either restrict the distribution of this famous interpretation or to add an addendum to the interpretation to cautiously warn the reader that the verse promoted violence aginst women.

I initially expected the SAHRC and the CGE to reject my complaint because these secular institutions were dominated by religious persons but to my surprise the SAHRC and the CGE accepted my complaint and promised to investigate my complaint.

After a year of constantly reminding the SAHRC and CGE of my complaint I received a reply by the SAHRC and CGE rejecting my complaint. However as a Constitutional institution bound by legalities the SAHRC and CGE provided the flimsiest of excuses to reject my complaint.

The media immediately pounced on the SAHRC and CGE’s decision and claimed that these Human Rights Commissions were promoting violence aginst women (Attached Pdf : Sunday Times, South Africa 9th September, 2012)

I am in the process of appealing the decision of the SAHRC and CGE to dismiss my complaint and I am confidant that I will succeed in overturning the decision of the SAHRC and CGE now that the spotlight of the media is on them.

If I do succeed in my complaint it will be the first instance in the world where a Human Rights institution has eeffectively restricted an interpretation of scripture of Muslims.

If I do succeed perhaps other secularist and humanist may be able to lay a similar complaint to mine in their respective countries with similar human rights institutions. This way you would not have to bother about any legal cost and the effect of getting a human rights institution to act on your behald is far greater than simply winning an individual civil suit.

Fayzal Mahamed

(Johannesburg, South Africa)

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Posted: 06 November 2012 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Good for you fayzal. I wish that someone in Canada would have the courage to pursue this strategy. We have very strong human rights laws.
In Canada the human rights commission will jump on any little perceived slight to moslems or any group that is a minority ( did you know that you that there is NO way to discriminate against a member of the majority ??). I would love to see how they handle a challenge going in the other direction. I think that they would refuse to look at it…......

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Posted: 06 November 2012 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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To Sine Dues - You have everything to gain and nothing to lose to at least attempting to lay a complaint with Canada’s Human Rights Institutions.

May I suggest a couple of points to help you.

1. There are two versions of Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s interpretation of the Quraan. An unabridged version with commentary and footnotes and an abridged version with no commentary and footnotes just the raw interpretation. Lay a complaint about the abridged version and even better provide a copy of the abridged version to Canada’s Human Rights Commission. Copies are abundantly available in most Muslim bookshops. The reason is because many Muslim theologians and jurist will point out to the Commission that the unabridged version qualifies the beating of Muslim women. By laying a complaint specific to the abridged version you avoid having to dispute this qualification of sorts with the Commission.

2. Supplement your complaint with letters of support from other Human Rights NGO’s and downloading a copy from WISE - Islamic Womens Institute that explains why they are against intepretations of the Quraan that promote violence against women

3. Ensure that you thoroughly read about the mandate of the Human Rights Commission and their procedure so that you use this knowledge to your advantage when laying your complaint and ensuring that the Human Rights Commission does not dismiss your complaint on a flimsy excuse.

Fayzal

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Posted: 05 December 2012 02:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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How substantial is the allegation that the social setup envisioned
by the Qur’an is a male dominated one?
This is a baseless allegation. Certainly, it is the Creator of man
and woman who is best aware of their natures. On giving a little thought
it will become clear that the moral system recommended by the Lord
God can never be the cause of the overlordship of one group to the
detriment of the other. The problem is then not of the moral system as
such. It is more a problem of the type of criterion that is used to
measure it.
The Qur’an teaches that it is the cooperation and mutuality
between man and woman which works as the foundational basis for
the very existence and furtherance of the institution of the family.
Indeed, the Qur’an formulated laws on the ground that to ensure the
permanence of any moral code it is necessary that the institution of
the family is itself manifested in good order. It is possible, however,
that those who believe in the ideology of the necessity of the collapse
of the family, will find the Qur’anic laws unacceptable. But those
who think over the existence of human society which is grounded in
morality can never say that even one among the Qur’anic laws is in
favour of male domination.
The Qur’an teaches that in the preservation of the solid edifice
of the family, both the man and the woman are to play their respective
roles. It is from this foundational basis that the Qur’anic laws
concerning their rights, responsibilities and duties emanate. The
Qur’anic vision with regard to man and woman may be summarised
as follows:
One : Both man and woman originated from the same soul.
They are like the two sides of a coin. Although both are independent,
it is their mutuality which gives each its fullness.
Two : Neither can a woman be like a man nor a man be like a
woman. Each has its very own different, yet, potentially mutual,
existence.
Three : Both man and woman have then rights. However those
rights are to be attained not through violence. It must be through mutual
cooperation.
Four : Both have their respective duties. It is only by virtue of
fulfilling these duties that both the individual and the society can survive.
Five : It is against the very law of nature for a man to undertake
the responsibilities of a woman and for a woman to try to fulfill those
of a man. Each has to perform its own duty.
Six : It should not be at the expense of the other’s rights that
each seeks to fulfill one’s obligations and enjoy one’s own rights.
What is the Qur’anic idea of the woman ?
This is a very pertinent question Whatever the organization, in
the final analysis we see that it will be its theoretical underpinnings
that will ultimately have a bearing on its laws and recommendations.
As far as the woman is concerned, the source of the Islamic
recommendations on the subject lies in the answer which the Qur’an
provides to the question as to what a women really is.
It is the Qur’anic position that like the man, the woman, too, is
the most special creation of the Lord Creator.
“O mankind! Fear your Guardian Lord, Who created you from
a single Person, created, out of it, his mate, and from them twain
scattered (like seeds) countless men and women; fear Allah, through
Whom ye demanded your mutual (rights), and be heedful of the wombs
(that bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.” (H.Q. 4:1)
Here the Qur’an has indicated the fact that both man and woman
have been created from a single soul; that both man and woman are
but two aspects of the same soul. It is only when these two aspects
are joined together that a completeness becomes possible. Or that it is
only in the mutual cooperation between man and woman that life
become wholesome. Indeed, the well spring of all love and compassion
that exists in a man-woman relationship is to be found in this
cooperation. It is the Qur’anic view that the love and compassion that
exists between life partners is but one among the many signs of God.
“And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from
among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He
has put love and mercy between you (hearts): Verily in that are signs
for those who reflect.” (H.Q. 30:21)
The Qur’an does not accord recognition to the division that is
based on gender. However, it does reject the idea of the equality of
the sexes as well. In its view, it is impossible that man be equivalent to
woman or that woman be the equal to man. To strive to conform to
such an idea would then be against nature herself. The Qur’an has
placed man and woman on that position which nature itself has assigned
to them. A position that is not inferior or equal to that of the man - this
is the position which nature has bestowed upon the woman. Islam, the
religion of nature, too, has conferred the same position.
Patriarchial systems speak to the woman of her obligations while
to the man they speak of rights. Is this not evident in the Qur’an
also?
No. The Qur’an speaks to both man as well as to woman
concerning their duties and rights. “Divorced women shall wait
concerning themselves for three monthly periods. And it is not lawful
for them to hide what Allah hath created in their wombs, if they have
faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better
right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation.
And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them,
according to what is equitable; but men have a degree over them and
Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” (Qur’an 2:28). This is the clear and
unambiguous statement of the Qur’an. How then can it be said that
the Qur’an, which contains this declaration is the creation of a
patriarchial system? In reality, there is no other religious text, like the
Qur’an, which deals with the rights of the woman in so clear and
exhaustive a manner.
If the impact of the rights which the Qur’an allowed - nay,
achieved - for the woman is to be fully appreciated, the position of the
woman during the time of its revelation must first be understood. Greek
philosophers considered woman to be the very personification of the
devil. The Roman law was such that it granted complete freedom for
the male to even murder his wife. The Indian woman was given the
religious advise to immolate herself at the funeral pyre of her husband.
The attitude of the Jews towards the woman, the cause of sin, was
most cruel. No better was the case of Christianity which followed in
the footsteps of the Jewish religion. Even as late as the 16th century,
the subject of discussion amongst the church fathers was the question
as to whether or not woman did possess a soul. As for the Arabia
before Prophet Muhammad (e), the condition of the woman there
was even worser off. She was not even allowed to have the right to
live. It was a society which was ever ready to bury alive the infant if
it was a female. It was in such a social context that the Qur’an first
began to speak on the rights of woman.
The rights accorded to woman by the Qur’an may be summarized
as follows :
1. The right to live. The Arabs were a people who, on knowing
that one’s wife had delivered a female child, contemplated killing it

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Posted: 05 December 2012 02:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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(Qur’an 16:59). The moral level of contemporary society, which, through
modern technological devices, identifies the sex of the embryo and on
learning that the child to be born is a female, one resorts to killing it in
its embryonic stage itself, is hardly above that of the Arabs of primitive
times. The Qur’an criticizes that narrow- mindedness which would
not permit the girl child to live. (Qur’an 16:59, 81:9). It declares that
like man, she, too, has the right to birth and to life.
2. The right to own property : The Qur’an has given the woman,
like the man, the right to earn wealth. The view of the Qur’an is that all
her earnings, whether it be through her personal efforts or by way of
inheritance, belongs to her and to her alone. None, not even the husband,
has the right to take anything, whatsoever, of her earnings without her
explicit permission. “And in no wise covet those things in which Allah
hath bestowed His gifts more freely on some of you than on others: to
men is allotted what they earn; But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah
hath full knowledge of all things.” (Qur’an 4:32)
3. The right to inheritance : It is the Qur’anic recommendation
that daughters, too, have a share in the wealth of their parents. In
reality, no other religious scripture has declared the right to inheritance
of the woman. Even in Europe, which boasts to be very civilized, the
right to inheritance for women was recognized and put into effect only
since the last couple of centuries. The Qur’an had, however, declared
and brought into effect the law fourteen centuries ago that women
had the right to inheritance. “From what is left by parents and those
nearest related there is a share for men and a share for women,
whether the property be small or large - a determinate share.” (Qur’an
4:7)
4. The right to choose a mate : Islam recommends that while
putting forth marriage proposals, the likes and dislikes of the woman
must be seriously considered. None, not even the father, has the right
to marry off his daughter to a person whom she dislikes. Prophet
Muhammad(e) had said, “The widow is not to be given in marriage
without her consent. The virgin is not to be given in marriage without
consulting her for her acceptance. Her silence constitutes her
acceptance’’ (Bukhari, Muslim)
5. The right to education and free thought: The Qur’an’s view is
that women have the right to education and free thought. This view is,
however, not restricted to mere advice. The Prophet had practically
demonstrated this. The great yearning for knowledge exhibited by the
woman who followed the Prophet is universally acknowledged. For it
can be seen from the history of the times that women used to always
approach the Prophet and his wives to acquire knowledge. Indeed it is
seen in the hadith reported by Imam Bukhari that the Prophet had set
aside one day for his discussions with them.
6. The right to criticize: Islam provides the woman with the
right to criticize and question. The incident wherein quoting from the
Qur’an a woman once criticizes the Caliph Umar when he prepared to
control the value of Mehr as men were finding it difficult to pay their
due to the constant increase in its value and wherein he corrected
himself saying: “Everybody - even an old woman - knows better than
Umar.’’ (Muslim), is quite well-known.
The first verses of Surah Mujadilah (Those who question) were
revealed in response to the questions put by a woman companion who
argued with the Prophet concerning the traditions of lihaar which
prevailed during the time of Jahiliyyah. This makes it quite clear that
even women were permitted to discuss matters freely with the Prophet
when it came to the issue of their rights. It is especially relevant that at
no point in these verses has the argument raised by the woman been
frowned upon.
7. The right to take part in social activities: Although it is only
natural that men take part in politics, Islam has granted the freedom to
participate in matters pertaining to the nation to the woman also. Islam,
however, does not compel women to take part directly in the campaigns
for freedom of belief. But Muslim women did take part in helping out
those who were fighting in the field of battle. History does give us
accounts of woman-companions of the Prophet who proceeded to the
battlefield accompanying the men, prepared food for them, distributed
water and nursed the wounded. There has been in Islamic history
even those precious few who, under dire circumstances, went with
the men to very thick of the action on the battle field. Indeed, it was
Ayesha, the Prophet’s wife, who led her side in the Battle of the Camel
which transpired as a result of the contention , and the opposition to it,
that Ali was not to be elected as Caliph until the assassins of Caliph
Usman were apprehended and punished.
8. The right to dower: It is the right of the woman being married
to recieve Mehr. The woman has the right to demand the Mehr of her
choice through her guardian. It is the duty of the man to give this
dower. The dower which is given to her is then considered as the
wealth of the woman. None can take from it except with her permission.
“And give the women (on marriage) their dower as an obligation; but
if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it
and enjoy it with right good cheer.” (H.Q. 4:4) - this is the
commandment of the Qur’an.
9. The right to divorce: The woman has the right to get a divorce
under circumstances wherein she becomes unable to live with her
husband. The divorce from the woman’s side is referred to by the two
terms Khul’a and Fasq. The first is the divorce wherein the dower is
also to be returned while the second is the one in which it is not
returned. In any event, Islam does not force the woman to live with
a husband whom she does not like. Under compelling circumstances,
she can recieve a divorce.

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Posted: 05 December 2012 02:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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The basis of the freedom enjoyed by women in the western world
is the Christian vision. As such, is not the outlook of the Christian
religion more suited to women than the Qur’anic outlook ?

In actual fact the unrestricted freedom experienced by women
in the western world has only served to lead that society into a state of
chaos and disruption. Indeed, the scenes now being enacted there are
in protest against the anarchic situation created by Christian doctrine
itself. Even the most fanatical of Christian missionaries would hardly
endorse the statement that the freedom enjoyed by them owes itself
to Christian doctrine. Christian intellectuals are now engaged in thinking
out ways and means to extricate western civilization from the confines
of immorality. They have now recognized the fact that salvation through
the death on the cross can hardly be employed to practically cleanse
people of their sins. This would then mean that they themselves have
admitted that the freedom of western women cannot be the product
of Christian dogma. In truth, therefore, the people of the west began
to move away from established values in protest, and as a response, to
the world renunciation of Christian ascetism.
The Christian religion had but followed the Jewish principles.
No new belief, no ritual or code of morality can be seen to have been
taught by Christ. Christ had only claimed that he was a prophet sent
unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Mathew 15:25). He had
said that he was sent only to fulfill the code of the Old Testament
(Mathew 5:17). This meant that he was a prophet appointed to guide
the Israelites along the path of God. He had advised the people to
follow the laws revealed to Moses. Indeed, in the first centuries (after
the departure of Christ) the church had no rites or rituals, whatsoever,
which differed from those of the Jews in any manner; nor was there
any such law either.
It is the Jewish belief that the woman is the cause of sin entering
amongst mankind. The woman was, after all, the one who ate of the
forbidden fruit herself and then persuaded her mate to eat it too
(Genesis 3:12). She was the sinner who not only disobeyed God herself
but caused another to disobey as well. With the Christian adaptation
of this idea, she became, through her opening the door for sin, doomed
to carry the burden of guilt for having become the immediate cause of
the gruesome ordeal of the son of God which led to his death on the
cross.
The Hebrew term Baal means owner. The Old Testament of
the Bible refers to man as Baal. We see that according to the
commandments of the Old Testament, man is portrayed as one who
has total authority over woman. Indeed, the Bible has given man the
permission to even sell of his women - even if they were to be his own
daughters (Genesis 21:7). Among the Jews there was even the tradition
of selling off their own daughters at the slave market in order to repay
their debts (Nehemiah 5:5). Even in the matter of religious practice,
the Jews never granted women the freedom to act freely. The Book
of Numbers ruled that man had the authority to nullify the vows taken
up by his daughter or wife (30:12). That the wife was mentioned
together with slaves and domestic animals in the Ten Commandments
(Exodus 20:17, Deuteronomy 5:21) is an indication of the position of
woman amongst the Jews.
The Jews had looked upon the birth of a female child with
contempt. It was the law that if the mother gave birth to a female
child, she would be in a state of impurity for a period of time that
would be twice as long as the case if the child born was male (Leviticus
12:15). The ruling of the Old Testament was that woman had only
half the value of man (Leviticus 27:3-7).
Polygamy was universally practiced during the age of the Old
Testament. The Law commanded no restriction, whatsoever, in its
practice. Indeed, Solomon is said to have had seven hundred wives
and three hundred concubines! (I King 11:3). Moreover, according to
the Old Testament, only man had the right to divorce. A man could
divorce his wife at the slightest pretext. Here, he had only to see to it
that he provided her with the written document of divorce. However,
there is no statement, whatsoever, anywhere in the Bible which would
enable woman to free herself from the clutches of even the most
cruel husband (Deuteronomy 24:1-4).
The position of woman in Jewish society at the time of the
advent of Jesus was, indeed, a pathetic one. Women, children and
slaves were not permitted to recite Shema, the morning prayer. In
fact, there was even a Jewish ritual daily prayer that said ‘I praise
God in that He created me not as woman.’ Woman were not permitted
to study the Torah. The Jewish Rabbi, Eliyasar, who lived around 90
C.E. had even opined that it was better to throw women to flames
than to teach them the Torah.
It can be seen that Christ had sincerely striven to bring about a
change in this situation. He gave positions to women amongst his
disciples. Even though there are no women amongst the apostles, we
see that many women attended his sermons. Mary Magdalene,
Yohanna, Susanna ... so goes their list. He had preached the gospel to
all irrespective of the fact whether they were men or women (John
4:1-24). In a Jewish society where it was ordained that there was
nothing for the woman in matter of religion, these steps were all
revolutionary in themselves. Through these steps Christ sought to teach
that both woman as well as man were equal before God.
Even as the church went astray in matters of belief after Jesus,
so did lapses begin to occur in the matter of the position accorded to
woman. The Christians, too, began to follow the prevalent laws of the
Old Jewish Community on matter dealing with woman. With the
assumption of Church authority by Paul, things became even worse.
Furthermore, with the influx of people from among the Greeks into
Christianity, the Christian community now became saturated with the
decadent conceptions on woman prevalent both in the Jewish as well
as the Greek traditions. Sophocles, the Greek philosopher, had said
that “silence is the token of greatness as regards to woman” The
Greeks were never prepared to grant any right, whatsoever, to woman.
That woman was the very personification of the devil was the very
theme popular in those days. At home, woman was not even entitled
to a place at the dining table. She was to ever remain confined to the
living quarters that was specially laid out for her. She was exploited
wholesale in the name of religion. The Greeks too were used to the
habit of ‘donating’ women to the temples. Those who were so ‘donated’
would then be doomed to a life of prostitution and menial jobs that
were associated with the temples. There are records to show that,
like the Devadasis of India, there were around a thousand of such
‘maid-servants of the divine’ in the service of the temple of the god,
Aphrodite, in Corinth. It was natural, therefore, that the Christian church,
which adopted religious laws from the Greeks and the Jews, sought to
enact laws that would violate the sanctity of womanhood.
It is, however, in the epistles of Paul that we see the Christian
seeds of all anti-woman policies often attributed to the Christianity.
This animosity towards woman that pervades the epistles of Paul was
but a natural outcome of his having accepted Greek philosophy as the
very foundation for all his own ideas as well. It is the influence of the
Greek thought that ‘the woman is the very image of the Devil’ that is
evident in the writings of Paul which state to the effect that ‘it is good
for a man not to marry.’ (Corinthians 7:1). It is again the ideas of
Sophacles who said that ‘silence is the token of greatness as regards
the women.’ that is reflected in the words of Paul who said that ‘the
women must observe silence at the church.’ (I Corinthians 14:34-3)

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Posted: 05 December 2012 02:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Woman is, indeed, one who demands protection. She is, by her
very nature, so constituted. Womanhood reaches its greatest heights
with pregnancy and child-birth. It is through marriage that woman is
enabled to fulfill all her natural propensities. By teaching that ‘it is
good for a man not to marry’, Paul has propagated a notion that is
wholly antagonistic towards woman: “Are you married? Do not seek
a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.” (I Corinthians
7:27)
“Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for
them to stay unmarried, as I am.” (I Corinthians 7:8)
“So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does
not marry does even better.” (I Corinthians 7:38)
If all men in the world where to obey Paul and perform the
‘good’ act of not having anything to do with woman, the entire human
race would cease to exist within the span of a single century. It is for
this reason that this Christian notion is said to be antagonistic towards
humanity itself.
It was on the basis of these statements of Paul that Christian
ascetism developed. We are unable, however, to see in the sayings of
Christ anything that would discourage marriage. Nevertheless, we see
that within the span of a few centuries after Christ, ascetism came to
be greatly encouraged and to be accepted as the very foundation of all
Christian virtue during the unfolding of the history of Christianity. The
Devadasi system that prevailed amongst the Greeks, too, must have
had its influence upon the development of Christian ascetism. Ascetism
would have a greater adverse effect on woman than on man. For,
after all, it was through wedlock that womanhood found its highest
fulfillment and perfection.
It is the reflection of the influence of the doctrines of Paul that
were antagonistic towards woman which we witness in the activities
of the medieval church. Indeed, The foremost subject of heated
discussions of the church in those times was whether woman had a
soul or not. The cruelty that was perpetrated in the name of ascetism
went beyond all limits. All this madness was supposedly committed in
order that one may approach the divine through the infliction of torture
upon one’s own self.
It may have been in response to this attitude of the church against
woman as well as against the fulfillment of the sexual instincts that set
the stage for the moral laxity of the western world. As for the Qur’an,
it presents the sexual impulse as a sign of God in itself. Its fulfillment
is but the natural yearning of the human species. Indeed, the Prophet
(e) had taught that the fulfillment of the sexual urge, through the legal
provisions of the divine commandments, was, in itself, an act of
righteousness. As far as man was concerned, woman was then a
partner in this righteous act. But according to the Christian notion that
sexuality is in itself a sin, it is only natural that the woman is seen as
the sinner. The Qur’an, on the other hand, introduces woman as mate
and support.

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Posted: 05 December 2012 05:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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How substantial is the allegation that the social setup envisioned
by the Qur’an is a male dominated one?
This is a baseless allegation.

No it’s not, and everything you’ve said proves it.

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Posted: 06 December 2012 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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This isn’t a conversation, it is an opportunity to preach…yawn, like most of the others, I’ve heard it all before.

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Posted: 07 December 2012 01:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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If all that is as you write here, why are Muslim women treated worse than animals? Why do they have no rights, why must they wear burkhas and stay out of the public view?  And please don’t insult our intelligence and claim that this is their free choice amd that they appreciate being “protected”. “Protected” is simply another name for imprisoned.

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Posted: 07 December 2012 07:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Lois - 07 December 2012 01:10 AM

If all that is as you write here, why are Muslim women treated worse than animals? Why do they have no rights, why must they wear burkhas and stay out of the public view?  And please don’t insult our intelligence and claim that this is their free choice amd that they appreciate being “protected”. “Protected” is simply another name for imprisoned.

I totally agree. Because the question is: protection from who? No protection is needed when male adults behave like adults. Forcing women to wear veils or make them stay inside a house, because a small minority of immature men fail to behave properly is outrageous.

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Posted: 07 December 2012 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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spreadtruth - 05 December 2012 02:14 AM

Woman is, indeed, one who demands protection. She is, by her
very nature, so constituted. Womanhood reaches its greatest heights
with pregnancy and child-birth. It is through marriage that woman is
enabled to fulfill all her natural propensities. By teaching that ‘it is
good for a man not to marry’, Paul has propagated a notion that is
wholly antagonistic towards woman: “Are you married? Do not seek
a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.” (I Corinthians
7:27)
“Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for
them to stay unmarried, as I am.” (I Corinthians 7:8)
“So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does
not marry does even better.” (I Corinthians 7:38)
If all men in the world where to obey Paul and perform the
‘good’ act of not having anything to do with woman, the entire human
race would cease to exist within the span of a single century. It is for
this reason that this Christian notion is said to be antagonistic towards
humanity itself.
.

clipped for religious drivel.

Who put men in charge to decide what is best for women and how much “protection” they need? It’s men, themselves, women need the most protection from.  It’s no different than a Mafia protection racket.  There are too many parallels.

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Posted: 24 February 2014 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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If women need protection from anything, I think it is from uneducated people.
For example, in my country Pakistan, women are increasingly going out to work but their primary place is viewed to be home.

Similar kinds of problems have been reported in Saudi Arabia
Here is an interesting video of a univ. of Stanford & Berkley advisor documenting
how Saudi women complain how cultural people hide their rights.

It was part of his tour around the Middle Eastern world and other places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sVcUnA-Fls


The following bits (from their own religious teachers!) would be real jaw droppers to many men living there:

Shaykh Mohammad Akram Nadwi mentions in his introduction to his Dictionary of women hadith [prophetic tradition] scholars, Al Muhadithaat,
“Not one [of the 8000 female hadith scholars he researched] is reported to have…
considered being a woman undesirable or inferior to being a man,..
considered she had no duties to the wider society, outside of the domain of family life.”

http://www.suhaibwebb.com/relationships/marriage-family/wifehood-and-motherhood-–-not-the-only-ways-to-paradise/


If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history, Islamic scholars are faced with a plethora of source material that has only begun to be studied. In reading the biographies of thousands of Muslim women scholars, one is amazed at the evidence that contradicts the view of Muslim women as marginal, secluded, and restricted

Women in Islamic Biographical Collections: From Ibn Saʻd to Who’s who
By Ruth Roded,  (Hebrew University of Jerusalem)
page viii

http://books.google.com/books?id=9jWkanrLpz4C&pg=PR8&dq=If+U.S.+and+European+historians+feel+a+need+to+reconstruct+women’s+history&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mcELU4uzHIK6yQHovoGgDQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history&f=false

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Posted: 24 February 2014 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I.J. Abdul Hakeem - 24 February 2014 03:36 PM

If women need protection from anything, I think it is from uneducated people.
For example, in my country Pakistan, women are increasingly going out to work but their primary place is viewed to be home.

Similar kinds of problems have been reported in Saudi Arabia
Here is an interesting video of a univ. of Stanford & Berkley advisor documenting
how Saudi women complain how cultural people hide their rights.

It was part of his tour around the Middle Eastern world and other places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sVcUnA-Fls


The following bits (from their own religious teachers!) would be real jaw droppers to many men living there:

Shaykh Mohammad Akram Nadwi mentions in his introduction to his Dictionary of women hadith [prophetic tradition] scholars, Al Muhadithaat,
“Not one [of the 8000 female hadith scholars he researched] is reported to have…
considered being a woman undesirable or inferior to being a man,..
considered she had no duties to the wider society, outside of the domain of family life.”

http://www.suhaibwebb.com/relationships/marriage-family/wifehood-and-motherhood-–-not-the-only-ways-to-paradise/


If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history, Islamic scholars are faced with a plethora of source material that has only begun to be studied. In reading the biographies of thousands of Muslim women scholars, one is amazed at the evidence that contradicts the view of Muslim women as marginal, secluded, and restricted

Women in Islamic Biographical Collections: From Ibn Saʻd to Who’s who
By Ruth Roded,  (Hebrew University of Jerusalem)
page viii

http://books.google.com/books?id=9jWkanrLpz4C&pg=PR8&dq=If+U.S.+and+European+historians+feel+a+need+to+reconstruct+women’s+history&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mcELU4uzHIK6yQHovoGgDQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=If U.S. and European historians feel a need to reconstruct women’s history&f=false


Women’s primary place is seen to be at home by whom? By men, of course. It is to their advantage on many levels to keep women out of the marketplace.  Then they point to passages in the Koran—written by other men—that also say wome should stay at home and be subservientbto men. How bloody convenient! 

Incidentally it’s not much different in Chrisianity, though most of the Christian world has come into at least he 19th century while the Muslim world is still in the 10th. Christianity still has a long way to go, but it is advancing. The Muslim world is stuck in the Dark Ages.

Lois

[ Edited: 25 February 2014 01:14 AM by Lois ]
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Posted: 24 February 2014 08:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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What’s this bit about going back and digging up ancient threads????  This one has been dead for over a year, and now it’s brought up.  How about starting new threads with your ideas rather than making people read ancient history?

Occam

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Posted: 25 February 2014 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Occam. - 24 February 2014 08:41 PM

What’s this bit about going back and digging up ancient threads????  This one has been dead for over a year, and now it’s brought up.  How about starting new threads with your ideas rather than making people read ancient history?

Occam

They just seem to pop up sometimes.  I read the latest post and didn’t notice that the previous ones were over a year old. It’s easy to overlook the dates.

Lois

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