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Election coverage
Posted: 12 November 2012 09:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Cloak - 08 November 2012 09:59 AM
TimB - 08 November 2012 08:57 AM
Cloak - 08 November 2012 04:50 AM
Thevillageatheist - 07 November 2012 03:31 PM

I just really don’t think we should be so easily forgetting some of the more questionable (and sometimes frightening) decisions he has made during his first term.


Care to elaborate?

 

Cap’t Jack

Have you been to the link I posted? I think Chris Hedges is able to put things much more eloquently than I can.

Chris Hedges” list of unfulfilled Obama pledges: “... support the public option in health care, close Guantanamo, raise the minimum wage, regulate Wall Street, support labor unions in their struggles with employers, reform the Patriot Act, negotiate an equitable peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, curb our imperial expansion in the Middle East, stop torture, protect reproductive rights, carry out a comprehensive immigration reform, cut the deficit by half, create 5 million new energy jobs and halt home foreclosures.”

So our choice is to get on Obama’s ass, and Congress’s ass, and the wimpy media’s ass, to try to get some of these things done.  Or we could (and more likely will) do nothing other than complain that we are just sheeple, buffeted by corporate powers that are beyond our ability to withstand, or we will just blithely go about our daily lives ignoring the need for any of those things to be done.

(Although there is an opening, possibly, right now, for Obama to get the Repubs to work with him on immigration reform.  The Repubs are stinging from a defeat and the foreboding of future defeats due to the rising demographic power of hispanics.  If there are any wise Repubs who can hold sway, they would do well to start doing things to try to bring hispanics into their fold.  Positive, practical and meaningful immigration reform, that they can take some credit for, could be a start.)

Look, I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not one of those people who sit around and complain without doing anything about it. But I’m also not one of those people who are looking at Obama right now through rose-tinted lenses. You can’t blame me for being wary. I’m just saying that many of the things Obama has done makes me wonder if he really is on our side or if he is just another owned automaton like Romney and Bush. If the next 4 years are going in the same direction that Obama took us in his last term, we are in trouble. I’m sorry, but Obama has not been the “good guy” during his last 4 years. There were many times where he was clearly the “bad guy”.

But he’s better by leaps and bounds than the alternative.  Sometimes you have to settle for the best of a poor lot.  If nothing else, Obama will probably save us from an extreme right wing Supreme Court for decades to come, which Romney woukd guarantee.  if you want to use records to assess the candidates, you had better check out Romney’s dismal record in Massachusetts and his avowed positions during the campaign—speaking of rose-tinted glasses.

.....

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Posted: 13 November 2012 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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I too voted for Obama but with nothing like the enthusiasm I had the first time.  I think many of the criticisms listed in this thread are valid, but agree strongly with Lois.  In fact, for me Obama’s reelection may have a huge affect on my life.  I’m married to a cancer survivor.  That means that one of us must keep a job which has healthcare benefits, as there is little possibility, (unless we pauperize ourselves so we can qualify for a state supported health care plan), we could ever afford health insurance.  We’re both more middle aged that my wife might want to admit and she’d like to reduce her teaching schedule after 20 years as a full time public high school teacher and spend more time with me, designing and marketing, working together in the small business I run; but the school district is cutting out access to insurance for part time teachers.  I believe it is much more likely that the health insurance system will be reformed under Obama making the changes we’d like to make possible.

I suppose a true libertarian view, or a strong conservative might say that we are some of those people, the 47%, who are lining up for handouts.  I’d feel that position would have more validity if cancer, or other serious illness is actually the patients fault.  Perhaps that is the case for some conditions, but my wife is has always been focused on health food and exercise.  (I keep my junk food forays very low profile).  I suppose it might be hard to make an argument, at least to a sociopath, as to why unaffected people should have to help shoulder the health costs of others.  I have no better answer than to say that we should do it because illness is a matter of chance, and because we, as a society, can choose to see universal health care as a social good that should be available to all.  For me, it’s an application of the Golden Rule.

So, while more extreme candidates have their appeal, I voted, pragmatically, for Obama.  I did that with the recognition that I will be assuming an obligation to be politically active and add my tiny influence to encouraging this administration to do the right things when it comes to human and constitutional rights, financial reform, etc.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Lois - 12 November 2012 09:03 PM

But he’s better by leaps and bounds than the alternative.  Sometimes you have to settle for the best of a poor lot.  If nothing else, Obama will probably save us from an extreme right wing Supreme Court for decades to come, which Romney woukd guarantee.  if you want to use records to assess the candidates, you had better check out Romney’s dismal record in Massachusetts and his avowed positions during the campaign—speaking of rose-tinted glasses.

.....

Who said I supported Romney?

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- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 13 November 2012 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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A graph from Steve Sailer on some of the exit poll data:

Exit_poll2.png

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Posted: 13 November 2012 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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I wonder where atheists and pot smokers fit in this list?  smile

Occam

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Posted: 13 November 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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I am glad that I did not have to vote in this last election….I could not vote for Romney due to his religious views and could not vote for Obama for his weakness and blundering….I am not American but the way he failed the ambassador in Benghazi was criminal….
Good luck to all U.S.A. citizens….you are going to need it !

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Posted: 13 November 2012 06:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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American politics provides me with the kind of fun I could never find in sports. I would have liked to be able to vote for Obama. I like the man.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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sine dues - 13 November 2012 03:08 PM

I am glad that I did not have to vote in this last election….I could not vote for Romney due to his religious views and could not vote for Obama for his weakness and blundering….I am not American but the way he failed the ambassador in Benghazi was criminal….
Good luck to all U.S.A. citizens….you are going to need it !

How was it criminal?  How did he fail?  Was he supposed to be there on guard duty?
It terrorism. That’s how it works. They surprise you with death confusion and suffering. The victims are almost always left with confusion and political repercussions in the aftermath.
Sometimes the political repercussions are good sometimes they are bad-sometimes its a mix.

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Posted: 14 November 2012 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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And whenever there is a catastrophe, the other political side is quick to blame those in power, even if there is no clear evidence. 

Even a natural event like Hurricane Sandy is the basis for some conservatives blaming the administration for not having the foresight to prepare more thoroughly (even though no funds were allowed by Congress) for the damage.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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vyazma- He is the president….he is supposed to take responsibility! The embassy requested more security and they were denied it !
        They put the media spin out there that it was a unplanned protest against the silly movie about mohamed when in reality it was a planned armed attack. There must be a reason for the Obama admin not responding to a crisis….what did Chris Stevens know ? Why was he allowed to die ?

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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sine dues - 15 November 2012 08:25 AM

vyazma- He is the president….he is supposed to take responsibility! The embassy requested more security and they were denied it !
        They put the media spin out there that it was a unplanned protest against the silly movie about mohamed when in reality it was a planned armed attack. There must be a reason for the Obama admin not responding to a crisis….what did Chris Stevens know ? Why was he allowed to die ?

I am going to give you a completely objective response.
The first part of your reply here is valid. It is valid in a political rhetoric sense. It logically follows that opposing party members and factions would bring these questions and scrutiny to bear on the Pres. It always happens, and someties it even helps to create a bi-partisan framework for policy improvement. In otherwords it can be fruitful sometimes.(in this case…I don’t think so, this appears to be nothing more than a fluff hunt. The main reason being no one can actually implicate Obama in any wrong doing whatsoever. Obama happened to be the president while this terrorist attack occurred. That’s it.)
Ok that is the first part of my response to you. Up to that point a dialog could have taken place that was a typical wonky rhetoric discussion.

Now to the last part of your response: The conspiracy that the Consulate members were allowed to die etc..
This negates EVERYTHING you have to say, and relegates your contribution to this thread to the garbage heap. With this pretext in your comments, you can’t be taken seriously in any of your comments. Just out of context.  For me, this will bleed over into other threads you may participate in. Even if the discussion is about entertainment or vegetables.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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vyazma- He is the president….he is supposed to take responsibility! The embassy requested more security and they were denied it !
        They put the media spin out there that it was a unplanned protest against the silly movie about mohamed when in reality it was a planned armed attack. There must be a reason for the Obama admin not responding to a crisis….what did Chris Stevens know ? Why was he allowed to die ?


You might also ask why this attention to Rice has become such a cause celebre with rep senators? Now they’re tying the Petreaus affair into their conspiracy theory to paint the pres as a Nixonite cover up artist. This has political undertones to steal some thunder from last weeks election. What did Stevens know? What anyone in his position would, intel gathered from local operatives who obviously didn’t see it coming either. If it was planned, the terrorists used the demonstration as a diversion to attack the compound. And just what defense should we plan for our consulates, guard towers and machinegun positions? That would look pretty inviting to our hosts and generate trust now wouldn’t it? If Stevens didn’t know then Rice didn’t either as she relies on the embassies and consulates for intel as well as CIA operatives and paid informers. we were blindsided by a lightening raid. This isn’t like Chaney’s lies about WMD. Where was the outrage by rep. Senators then? If Rice is blocked the reps hope Kerry will fill the position and leave a seat for Brown. This is a transparent attempt to villify Obama and capture another senate seat for the reps.


Cap’tbJack

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Posted: 17 November 2012 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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sine dues - 13 November 2012 03:08 PM

I am glad that I did not have to vote in this last election….I could not vote for Romney due to his religious views and could not vote for Obama for his weakness and blundering….I am not American but the way he failed the ambassador in Benghazi was criminal….
Good luck to all U.S.A. citizens….you are going to need it !

Did you hold Bush responsible for the 28 embassy workers murdered during his administration? I don’t recall such a big hoohaw raised over their deaths. Has anyone mentioned to you that the GOP overwhelmingly voted to remove security from the embassies a year before, leaving them vulnerable? I don’t hear them taking any of the responsibility. AND I suppose you felt safer when we had a cowboy president willing to ride roughshod over the world starting wars willy nilly, with no understanding of how it would affect the politics of the country, or the region. A president with a messiah complex who thought the countries would fall down on their knees to thank the US for rescuing them from their horrid dictator. He didn’t bother to ask regional experts before going in. I don’t here your alarm that this same president set a precedent by starting a war with 2 countries that had not struck the US first. I don’t like that Obama has not closed Guantanamo, and his free use of drones, but all and all, I’d rather have him than a warmongering cowboy who invokes gods and crusades when he talks about the deaths of others.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Cloak - 08 November 2012 04:13 PM

Okay, I just wanted to be clear on what you are saying. So, you’re simply saying that Obama is influenced by many factors, just like we all are (not sure how I’ve said anything that contradicted this). Because of this fact, it is our responsibility to try to be the “strongest influence” for him during his next 4 years?

I’m guessing that the reason Obama ignored us more than half of the time was because we just didn’t try hard enough? And that if we “try harder” this time, he just might listen to us?

Granted our influence is limited, but it’s something.  One controlling influence that we don’t have to worry about is Obama needing to do things to be re-elected.  So, for example, we could push for him to end the war on drugs.

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Posted: 17 November 2012 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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And what makes you think the chief executive can run all the minor jobs in the government?  That’s why we have different groups to do so, in this case CIA personnel. 

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