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Hello from Frankfurt, Germany
Posted: 15 November 2012 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Hi, I’m new to this forum. My interests include cosmology, astrophysics, evolution, neuroscience, politics, history, interfaith dialog.
Greetings, Dan

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Posted: 15 November 2012 07:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Welcome. Your first post on the “Is atheism doomed to extinction” thread was quite good. I look forward to you joining our discussions.

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You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Welcome from Switzerland!/Wilkommen aus der Schweiz!

Maybe we can open a German speaking Forum… But I am Dutch, so I am afraid you would find all errors I make in German.

Your interests have a big overlap with mine.

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GdB

“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

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Posted: 15 November 2012 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thanks for the warm welcome! In der Schweiz wird derzeit ja heftig über die deutschen Steuer-CDs diskutiert. Oh, je. That might be an interesting topic to discuss. Should revenue services buy CDs containing data about tax fraud. What do you think of the performance of the Dutch soccer team yesterday?

Thanks, Darron. Well, I still can’t think of a single creationist I was able to convince. And I tried a lot. Telling them that they can believe in God and accept evolution at the same time seems to lead nowhere. But some atheist fundamentalists are also hard to convince. They have a hard time grasping the idea that theists can both believe in God and embrace science. I look forward to our discussions as well.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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dansmith62 - 15 November 2012 07:59 AM

But some atheist fundamentalists are also hard to convince. They have a hard time grasping the idea that theists can both believe in God and embrace science.

Sure it’s hard to convince us. Why would a good and omnipotent God come up with something as cruel as evolution?

What’s up with the parasitic wasp larvae eating through an alive caterpillar?

537341266_48014f0210_o.img_assist_custom-600x438.jpg

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Posted: 15 November 2012 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Great picture, George. I’m sure there are some folks out there in Papua New Guinea or elsewhere who would say, hey, honey, get the grill ready, let’s have a barbecue. Need my protein. Yummy.

Btw, I don’t think God came up with something trivial (from His point of view) like evolution. Why not let His superlaws of the megagigazettayottamultiverse throw some dice and see what happens. Sure, God is out there somewhere, enjoying the show. Atheists debating theists. Parasitic wasp larvae eating through an alive caterpillar. What a great show, indeed.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I don’t know what kind of God you believe in, but God who didn’t plan for evolution is hardly omniscient. Was there a chance that his super laws were not going to produce anything at all? And yes, watching wasp larvae eating through a suffering caterpillar is certainly very entertaining…if you are a sadist. It’s almost as amusing as watching children die of cancer and hunger. What a great show, indeed.

[ Edited: 15 November 2012 08:49 AM by George ]
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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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George - 15 November 2012 08:47 AM

I don’t know what kind of God you believe in, but God who didn’t plan for evolution is hardly omniscient. Was there a chance that his super laws were not going to produce anything at all? And yes, watching wasp larvae eating through a suffering caterpillar is certainly very entertaining…if you are a sadist. It’s almost as amusing as watching children die of cancer and hunger. What a great show, indeed.

Parasitoid wasps are fascinating.  Many species of ichneumonidae use one of several symbiotic viruses (the polydnaviruses) to hamper the immune systems of their hosts while their young develop enough to be safe on their own.  Several other genera can even alter their hosts behavior (or at least their larvae can).  The larvae of one particular glyptapanteles species mind control the caterpillars they hatch fron into guarding them as they pupate, only letting it die once they hatch.  Hymenoepimecis argyraphaga’s larvae manipulate spiders into spinning their webs into safe little places for them to pupate.  And the emerald jewel wasp (ampulex compressa) stings cockroaches in the brain and basically makes them into zombies.  It’s amazing.

Parasites are among the few things that can hold my interest for more than a few minutes.

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Clarification

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Yes, the wasps are fascinating, as are evolution and everything else in the universe. But all the stuff hardly seems to be a gift from a perfect and loving Father, does it?

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Did your God plan for George Sr. Member to edit his post on 15 November 2012 08:49 AM? What kind of small God would this be to get involved in every detail. It is a fact that the laws of our universe make the birth and death of stars, the formation of planets and evolution possible. And a consequence of this is human beings capable of making their own decisions without God interfering in everything we do. And why would God have to interfere with the formation of RNA? The natural laws are not violated. We don’t need a magic wand.

Without suffering there would be no human beings. The dinosaurs suffered greatly. Suffering is part of our universe. But crisis is the mother of invention and innovation. Without climate changes millions of years ago our ancestors would not have climbed down their trees and eventually left Africa. We owe our existence to the suffering of the past. Children in the future might no longer die from cancer. We got all the tools to figure out how this can be achieved. But this means kids in schools must fall in love with math and science and be willing to work hard. Progress is a reality.

[ Edited: 15 November 2012 09:25 AM by dansmith62 ]
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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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George - 15 November 2012 09:21 AM

Yes, the wasps are fascinating, as are evolution and everything else in the universe. But all the stuff hardly seems to be a gift from a perfect and loving Father, does it?

Nope.  If god created them he was a sick, sick bastard.  Creative though he may have been.

And I didn’t even mention sacculina.  It’s a barnacle that…..nevermind.  I’m getting carried away again.

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Fixes

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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dansmith62 - 15 November 2012 09:23 AM

Did your God plan for George Sr. Member to edit his post on 15 November 2012 08:49 AM? What kind of small God would this be to get involved in every detail. It is a fact that the laws of our universe make the birth and death of stars, the formation of planets and evolution possible. And a consequence of this is human beings capable of making their own decisions without God interfering in everything we do. And why would God have to interfere with the formation of RNA? The natural laws are not violated. We don’t need a magic wand.

Without suffering there would be no human beings. The dinosaurs suffered greatly. Suffering is part of our universe. But crisis is the mother of invention and innovation. Without climate changes millions of years ago our ancestors would not have climbed down their trees and eventually left Africa. We owe our existence to the suffering of the past. Children in the future might no longer die from cancer. We got all the tools to figure out how this can be achieved. But this means kids in schools must fall in love with math and science and be willing to work hard. Progress is a reality.

Why not cure the kids now? What is God waiting for? Or would curing them now make your God also too small? What a bunch on nonsense.

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Maybe God’s infested with Jewel Wasp larvae and just sitting in the burrow waiting for the sweet release of death.

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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 15 November 2012 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Servus! Jeztz gehts an! Ich hab gewohnnen in D-land fast 18 jahren vorher. Mein Deutsch ist fast weg!
Ich hab im Bayern gewohnt.  Unter Die Zugspitze.^___^^^—-^^—^__-^^

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Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

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Posted: 15 November 2012 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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dansmith62 - 15 November 2012 07:59 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome! In der Schweiz wird derzeit ja heftig über die deutschen Steuer-CDs diskutiert. Oh, je. That might be an interesting topic to discuss. Should revenue services buy CDs containing data about tax fraud. What do you think of the performance of the Dutch soccer team yesterday?

First you did not mention soccer, otherwise I would have said we have some overlap in interests… wink

And yes, I think it is morally allowed for Germany to buy Swiss ‘tax discs’. There is nothing moral in hiding money for the taxes of other countries (except the countries themselves are criminal. A difficult border line, but it is obvious that none of the West European countries is a criminal state). However, the only way to move the Swiss in this (and some other) topic is to force them. I think it is good that countries keep up the pressure. But to be consistent, they should also put this pressure on some US States (Delaware), Singapore, England, to name a few.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 03:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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George, you did not answer my question. I speculate that the reason for this is that you don’t believe that God plans everything you do, like writing an answer to my posts. It’s illogical to assume a God who would directly get involved in anything we don’t like (such as kids dying from cancer) but not get involved in things we can do own our own (such as answering a forum post). Your God is inconsistent. My God is consistent. We humans who inhabit God’s wonderful universe do have the power to cure cancer and to achieve this goal we need to fight religious fanatics in the US who want to change the science curricula and include nonscientific stuff such as creationism, intelligent design and reading tarot cards.

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