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Hello from Frankfurt, Germany
Posted: 18 November 2012 03:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Vyazma, Dein Deutsch klingt doch noch ziemlich gut !

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Posted: 18 November 2012 04:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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GdB, I share your view. Swiss banks must find business models that do not depend on foreigners breaking the laws of their countries. I wonder how many Swiss people raise their voice against the current German-bashing activities.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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dansmith62 - 15 November 2012 09:23 AM

Did your God plan for George Sr. Member to edit his post on 15 November 2012 08:49 AM? What kind of small God would this be to get involved in every detail. It is a fact that the laws of our universe make the birth and death of stars, the formation of planets and evolution possible. And a consequence of this is human beings capable of making their own decisions without God interfering in everything we do. And why would God have to interfere with the formation of RNA? The natural laws are not violated. We don’t need a magic wand.

Without suffering there would be no human beings. The dinosaurs suffered greatly. Suffering is part of our universe. But crisis is the mother of invention and innovation. Without climate changes millions of years ago our ancestors would not have climbed down their trees and eventually left Africa. We owe our existence to the suffering of the past. Children in the future might no longer die from cancer. We got all the tools to figure out how this can be achieved. But this means kids in schools must fall in love with math and science and be willing to work hard. Progress is a reality.

I don’t welcome you here, and I’m waiting to see your stupid worldview ripped to shreds.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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mid atlantic - 18 November 2012 05:38 AM

I don’t welcome you here, and I’m waiting to see your stupid worldview ripped to shreds.

MA, we really don’t need this kind of empty invective here on the Forum. If you have a substantive, reason-based response, you should feel free to post it. Otherwise this is in violation of the rules. Thanks.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Well, if I’m not welcome here, I should probably leave. Mid-Atlantic’s comment reminds me of totalitarian countries embracing one worldview and rejecting all others (or calling them stupid). If that’s the spirit here, I’m probably in the wrong forum.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 06:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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But you are welcome here and Mike’s response is not indicative of attitudes in this forum. I may disagree with your concepts but not your desire to discuss them, in fact I welcome it. Give us a shot and stay awhile. Willkomen sagt Hauptmann Jack.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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dansmith62 - 18 November 2012 03:57 AM

George, you did not answer my question. I speculate that the reason for this is that you don’t believe that God plans everything you do, like writing an answer to my posts. It’s illogical to assume a God who would directly get involved in anything we don’t like (such as kids dying from cancer) but not get involved in things we can do own our own (such as answering a forum post). Your God is inconsistent. My God is consistent. We humans who inhabit God’s wonderful universe do have the power to cure cancer and to achieve this goal we need to fight religious fanatics in the US who want to change the science curricula and include nonscientific stuff such as creationism, intelligent design and reading tarot cards.

I’ll answer you question: No, God didn’t plan for me editing my post because he doesn’t exist. But since you believe he does exist I’d like to ask you a question: Is he a sadist? And maybe I’ll thow in the cliché and boring question as well: Where is the evidence for his existence? If you answer, please try to sound scientific and not poetic nor “spiritual.”

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Posted: 18 November 2012 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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dansmith62 - 18 November 2012 06:36 AM

Well, if I’m not welcome here, I should probably leave. Mid-Atlantic’s comment reminds me of totalitarian countries embracing one worldview and rejecting all others (or calling them stupid). If that’s the spirit here, I’m probably in the wrong forum.

Yes, you are welcome here. Everybody who is open for a reasonable debate can make his/her postings here.

I am a bit worried about the tone of certain discussions/postings here. I think that if you do not like somebody’s view, instead of reacting irritated, one can just ignore the posting. If you are not interested in a reasonable discussion, then just let it be. And if you think the other’s view is not reasonable, well, let it be to. Or try to show that the view point is not reasonable.

I don’t think these forums are meant to insult believers, and congratulate each others how good we atheists are.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I think debates are wonderful. They are the fuel of progress. Being able to disagree without being disagreeable involves a general attitude of respect toward others. I’m totally used to responses like “I disagree with your view” or “your argument is illogical” or “your view doesn’t make sense at all” or even “this is nonsense”. What I don’t like at all in online forums is when people get personal and are more keen to attack the character of a person instead of the argument. Something like “I don’t welcome you here” is about attacking a person, not a view or an argument.

Yes, most of the time ignoring unacceptable postings is the best strategy, especially when users show troll-like behavior. Let’s not feed them. I’m all for that. This case is somewhat different, though. I’m new here, and in this “Hello from Germany” thread which I created I tried to introduce myself and get a feeling how this forum works and meet people. Getting a “you are not welcome” in an introduction thread is kind of unusual. In any case a new experience for me, but the online world always offers new surprises. I guess we have to live with this ugly side of instant worldwide communication. I assume if I had met Mike in a real room and shook his hand saying, “Hi, I’m Dan and I’m new here. I look forward to our discussions” his reaction would have been different even when totally disagreeing with something I would be saying during our first discussion.

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 09:54 AM by dansmith62 ]
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Posted: 18 November 2012 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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George, let’s take interstellar space as an example. It’s a very peaceful place. A few particles buzzing around here and there. In some other universes with slightly different natural laws and physical constants this might be all that’s really happening. A few particles buzzing around here and there. Eternal peace. Now in ours we have stars which are born, but they also die, some quite violently. Organic life is born and it dies. That’s nature. We can’t have it both ways. A complex planet like Earth can’t be as peaceful as interstellar space. Destructive forces are a reality. So is God a sadist? Well, if we preferred the peaceful equilibrium, no one would actually be around to ask: Is God a bore?

Simple answer to your other question: No, there is no scientific evidence for the existence of God. All there is are plausible metaphysical arguments. Likewise there are plausible metaphysical arguments against the existence of God.

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 10:00 AM by dansmith62 ]
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Posted: 18 November 2012 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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dansmith62 - 18 November 2012 09:53 AM

George, let’s take interstellar space as an example. It’s a very peaceful place. A few particles buzzing around here and there. In some other universes with slightly different natural laws and physical constants this might be all that’s really happening. A few particles buzzing around here and there. Eternal peace.

That is incorrect. Interstellar space is deadly to life. Stars blow up regularly, and even when on the Main Sequence emit radiation that would kill us if not for the Van Allen Belt deflecting them. NASA has found a galaxy blasting its neighbor with high-energy particles. Interstellar space is not peaceful.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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dansmith62 - 18 November 2012 09:53 AM

Simple answer to your other question: No, there is no scientific evidence for the existence of God. All there is are plausible metaphysical arguments. Likewise there are plausible metaphysical arguments against the existence of God.

In other words, you are just making stuff up.

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Posted: 18 November 2012 11:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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I’m beginning to wonder if we should limit posts to the local time mornings of the posters so they wouldn’t have had a chance to lose their civility in three or four glasses of wine or scotch.  LOL 

The problem I find, George, is that when we discuss major differences with people who seem reaonable and logical, we and they are starting with completely diverse premises that undly our entire argument.  You and I accept physical, real world phenomena as our basis and reject metaphysical ideas.  Many fundamentalists accept metaphysical ideas as absolute truth and reject or ignore many conclusions drawn from physical world phenomena.  We recognize we don’t even come close to speaking the same mental language so we don’t bother discussing things with each other (beyond the fundamentalist’s need to proselytize).  The difficult case is one we see with people like D.S.62.  Since he also accepts real world phenomena and the conclusions from them, we can’t help but think we are speaking the same thought-language. 

Just as many of us are strong atheists but with a hidden agnostic streak that’s in our evidence, I see D.D.62 beiing much like us in that he is a theist, but with a hidden agnostic streak when he states, “there are plausible metaphysical arguments against the existence of God.”

While I don’t think any of us will change the others, discussions may help us clarify our own ideas.

OK, D.S.62.  Your turn, did I completely misunderstand your thinking?  smile

Occam

[ Edited: 18 November 2012 11:54 AM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 19 November 2012 12:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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DarronS - 18 November 2012 10:19 AM

Stars blow up regularly, and even when on the Main Sequence emit radiation that would kill us if not for the Van Allen Belt deflecting them.

[nitpicking]It is the magnetic field of the earth that protects us. Electrically charged particles are caught by it, and so form the Van Allen Belt, instead of reaching the earth. The Van Allen Belt is therefore itself a very dangerous place to be, also for electronic devices. See here.[/nitpicking]

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“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

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Posted: 19 November 2012 04:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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dougsmith - 18 November 2012 05:49 AM
mid atlantic - 18 November 2012 05:38 AM

I don’t welcome you here, and I’m waiting to see your stupid worldview ripped to shreds.

MA, we really don’t need this kind of empty invective here on the Forum. If you have a substantive, reason-based response, you should feel free to post it. Otherwise this is in violation of the rules. Thanks.

You know that I’ve been here too long to feign ignorance of the rules, I crossed the line.

Sorry.

[ Edited: 19 November 2012 04:21 AM by mid atlantic ]
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