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our electoral system: fair or not
Posted: 26 November 2012 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Right.  First, to get rid of the electoral college requires a Constitutional amendment, and that needs 3/4s of the states to vote for it.  However, the E.C. gives the lower population half of the states an advantage so they wouldn’t vote for it.  The same goes for converting the Congress to a unicameral body.  The only thing we have any chance of instituting is reducing gerrymandering, but even when we try to do that, we choose systems of electoral district boundary definition that are not much better than allowing the political parties to do it. And that effectively prevents any third party voice.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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I’m delighted that this thread has developed before I go completely insane.  I have often tried to explain our system of government and then the election of 2000 pops up and somehow nothing works.  But for the current problem, I am lost in why Madam Secretary Rice tried so hard to to send us to war when she met up with the Sunday Shows across the America.  This is too difficult for me because I do not have tweet soft wear.  I am able to use the telephone and my keyboard but not at the same time.  My kids are tweatable but I am not!

So would it be possible for one of us to be able to post how we have learned to vote in our districts across America?  Our system would be either in person or by mail or even online…no?  We must be able to cover all circumstances eliminating a chance of duplication….no?

There could be circumstances for Americans in armed services, eligible adults in prison and newly accepted citizens.  Describing eligibility should not be difficult and should be identical among all Americans.  Obviously the laws for voting should be consitent to knock out every possible “birther” exception.  Donald Trump should never have to speak again on the legality of a birth certificate. 

All elections can be legal and easy if all of us can agree on the chosen methods.  The electoral system was designed to make the total numbers equitable.  I can understand this.  There are a number of reasons for this information.  I found asking my children to research the reasons for how our kids were taught the answers to many of our questions. 

I think we learned over the years that not all prisoners have lost their ability to vote.  I realize this is a state’s choice and has caused a lot of anger when certain names have been removed from the voting lists without legal reason.  We share the information of eligbility   but many times the names are removed in error.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Each state is also in charge of developing their own process and rules for voting.  (This seems to me to be more problematic than any problems with the electoral college.)

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Posted: 28 November 2012 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Each state is also in charge of developing their own process and rules for voting.  (This seems to me to be more problematic than any problems with the electoral college.)


I know this sounds like a really simplistic solution to a complex problem in this country, and it has been mentioned many times before, but I reinterate: issue every citizen a standardized voting ID card and open the polls for either early or late voting. Base the card on the SSI number issued now at birth or when citizenship is obtained. All ex-cons to have their voting rights fully restored, and cards purged when the voter dies. The card would be valid in all states with no waiting period of 6 mo. To a year to est. residence. Each number periodically checked via the SSI. Next, outlaw gerrymandering. Completely. This is a vestige of the spoils system later expanded by Jackson. Everyone then has an equal stake in the process. They did this to us during the draft period when we turned 18 we were compelled to register and received a selective service card. The same system could be expanded to include us all. Why not then issue a national voting card? It would level the playing field so to speak. Of course the conspiracy theorists would have a field’s day with my idea!


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Posted: 28 November 2012 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 28 November 2012 12:31 PM

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Each state is also in charge of developing their own process and rules for voting.  (This seems to me to be more problematic than any problems with the electoral college.)


I know this sounds like a really simplistic solution to a complex problem in this country, and it has been mentioned many times before, but I reinterate: issue every citizen a standardized voting ID card and open the polls for either early or late voting. Base the card on the SSI number issued now at birth or when citizenship is obtained. All ex-cons to have their voting rights fully restored, and cards purged when the voter dies. The card would be valid in all states with no waiting period of 6 mo. To a year to est. residence. Each number periodically checked via the SSI. Next, outlaw gerrymandering. Completely. This is a vestige of the spoils system later expanded by Jackson. Everyone then has an equal stake in the process. They did this to us during the draft period when we turned 18 we were compelled to register and received a selective service card. The same system could be expanded to include us all. Why not then issue a national voting card? It would level the playing field so to speak. Of course the conspiracy theorists would have a field’s day with my idea!


Cap’t Jack

Some federal system like this, provided and imposed federally would seem to take away a lot of the chaos of the current system. But I don’t know whether it is Constitutionally possible.  I think it is Constitutionally left to the individual states. But I am not sure about that. Maybe Occam knows.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Possibly mandatory voting by mail in ballot(like Oregon?).
As long as the popular vote is in the ball-park with the electoral college plus or minus, I don’t see a problem.
Obviously with 85-95% of the population voting, any strong deviation with the popular vote vs. the electoral college would be self-correcting through legislation. By strong popular mandate.
I’m guessing the electoral college is close enough though.
That’s my $0.02!

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Posted: 29 November 2012 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Citizens like the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not vote.  So making this a mandated action would be a problem. No matter what the problems are, religion seems to get in the way who must vote and who must not…

Humans do not like to be told what to do.  Trying to force a democracy onto a group of ignorant fools is laughable.  Fools like Romney need to be guided all through his life so he won’t get caught doing something against his church.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Sandy Price - 29 November 2012 09:20 AM

Citizens like the Jehovah’s Witnesses do not vote.  So making this a mandated action would be a problem. No matter what the problems are, religion seems to get in the way who must vote and who must not…

Humans do not like to be told what to do.  Trying to force a democracy onto a group of ignorant fools is laughable.  Fools like Romney need to be guided all through his life so he won’t get caught doing something against his church.

So the jehovas don’t vote.  They wouldn’t vote either way.  No big deal. We just need to get voter turn out to 85-95%. 
In the case of voting, the mail in ballots arriving at every eligible voters mailbox is what would be mandated.  Not filling it out and returning it.
People don’t mind being told what to do. They are just lazy.  That’s why they don’t want to do it. When the ballot can be filled out on the internet in e-mail, or pre-paid return postage, voter participation will go up to 85-95%.
Then the results can be comapred with the electoral college, and adjustments can be made if necessary.  I got a feeling they won’t be necessary. Maybe.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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TimB - 28 November 2012 11:25 AM

Each state is also in charge of developing their own process and rules for voting.  (This seems to me to be more problematic than any problems with the electoral college.)

Agreed, even for state and municipal elections. The system should be nationalized and standardized.
Mail-in mandatory voting across the board.  Same ballot from Alabama to Alaska.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Some federal system like this, provided and imposed federally would seem to take away a lot of the chaos of the current system. But I don’t know whether it is Constitutionally possible.  I think it is Constitutionally left to the individual states. But I am not sure about that. Maybe Occam knows.

Voting by the “people” as it was defined in the original Const. Was tied into the process by Article II and later more clearly defined by Amendment 15 in 1869. It speaks directly to African-American rights but was expanded over time. Most people don’t know that the Const. Made no provisions for political parties originally and voting was done indirectly, hence the electoral college. Electors were chosen by the state legislators as was the Senate at first. The ‘people” could directly elect the House of Reps. The old Roman model.

 

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Posted: 29 November 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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The idea of a national identification card and everyone being able to vote anywhere they are sounds reasonable, and since the federal government imposed strict voting requirements on the states that had been blocking African-American voters, I’d guess that it could be done without a constitutional amendment.  However, those political groups who think they can play games as has been done in the last few elections would probably do everything they could to prevent such a law from being instituted.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 10:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Occam. - 29 November 2012 07:13 PM

The idea of a national identification card and everyone being able to vote anywhere they are sounds reasonable, and since the federal government imposed strict voting requirements on the states that had been blocking African-American voters, I’d guess that it could be done without a constitutional amendment.  However, those political groups who think they can play games as has been done in the last few elections would probably do everything they could to prevent such a law from being instituted.

Occam

If we could trick both Dems and Repubs, in 3/4 of the states, to think it is to their political advantage, we could get such an amendment (if one is necessary). I would want ID cards that cost absolutely nothing for poor people to acquire, but the Repubs could have their picture requirement, so as to eliminate the scourge of phantom voter fraud.

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Posted: 30 November 2012 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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The responsibility for a legal election would then be in the hands of the people who register the new voters?  Each state would have the resonsibility of weeding out the felons?  Is this not how this is done today?  Every eligible voter would then have a voter registration card with a picture and signature to be shown when they vote.  The problem today seems to be that people who vote under the direction of the Secretary of State in each State must be told the updated days and the changes in times the polls are open for early voting. 

The images of the lines waiting for a chance to vote are horrifying and I have never seen this in person.  When I lived in Arizona I volunteered to help many who were blind, deaf or unable to stand or sit for long periods of time.  I was able to help out four weekends prior to our elections and in doing so was able to discuss the issues that brought many out to vote.  It was a period in my life where I had no preference for who won or who lost. 

I remember my first vote and the emotions that ran through my inner soul stunned me.  I never again had such a reaction to this action. 

If I read this thread correctly, it could mean a whole new method of how we vote, how we register the voters and how we count the ballots?  We have 50 States and each one has a number assigned according to the number of residents?  or would it be the number of registered voters? 

I vote by mail and have never had to wait in any line, even at the post office.

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Posted: 30 November 2012 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 16 November 2012 08:26 PM

The Electoral Collage is the worst of all possible systems…except for all the others!

(I don’t like much of anything about it, but I think it behooves us to be careful what we ask for when proposing an alternative. We might get it and end up not liking it.)

True, but we already have a system we don’t like, so what’s the difference?  We’ve elected presidents through the electoral college for 236 years, so far.  Why not trade it for a majority of the popular vote for the next 236 years, then we could revisit? Fair’s fair.

.....

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Posted: 30 November 2012 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Sandy, I think the idea is to have a standard voting system throughout all of the states, that all states would be required to follow.  I think that you are right to be concerned about the details of such a system, lest it cause more unfairness than it cures.

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