Media loves a good miracle story
Posted: 24 November 2012 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This is a heart warming story but it got me thinking how people see what they want to see.

The facts in these stories are always from the family’s point of view so they are naturally exaggerated and distorted to tell the story they want to tell, but lets assume there is some truth to what they reported. They claim the doctors did not want to operate because the victim had only a 25% chance of survival ( that in itself has to raise a few eyebrows as to the accuracy of this). They agreed to operate because of the victims age and he went on to recover.. He beat the long 1:4 odds of survival and hence “a miracle” occurred.

It just so happens that the kids are all home so this morning i went out and bought a dozen bagels, 3 each of poppy, egg ,plain, and multigrain. My favorite is poppy and as luck would have it, when i reached in the bag without looking i grabbed a poppy bagel. Its a Miracle!!!!  ( And thats not even counting the fact that I actually got 13 instead of twelve as is the custom when you order a dozen so it was even more of a miracle   tongue wink   )

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Posted: 24 November 2012 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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There was also a story in the news, recently, about a woman who had been in a coma for 42 years.  She died.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 24 November 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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And what could be a greater miracle than the Phineas Gage story. The guy should have been killed instantly after an iron tamping bar shot through his head an through his brain. A miracle? Ask a brain surgeon. Did god spare him for some important work in the future? Well, he toured the circus for a whie as the rumor goes. Pretty grisly account though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 25 November 2012 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 24 November 2012 03:00 PM

And what could be a greater miracle than the Phineas Gage story. The guy should have been killed instantly after an iron tamping bar shot through his head an through his brain. A miracle? Ask a brain surgeon. Did god spare him for some important work in the future? Well, he toured the circus for a whie as the rumor goes. Pretty grisly account though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

 

Cap’t Jack

Not true. It depends on what part of the brain is pierced. I’ve had suicidal patients shoot themselves through and through in the temporal lobe, and they, like Gage end up with just a personality change. If he didn’t get an infection or a brain swelling enough to occlude blood flow, he can indeed live—and he did!

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Posted: 25 November 2012 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Not true. It depends on what part of the brain is pierced. I’ve had suicidal patients shoot themselves through and through in the temporal lobe, and they, like Gage end up with just a personality change. If he didn’t get an infection or a brain swelling enough to occlude blood flow, he can indeed live—and he did!

Ah ha! Even more evidence to prove the existence of miracles! These patients were saved by god for a purpose. One of them may invent the longer lasting light bulb. Of course not true. But how he escaped an infection is beyond me as nuero science was in it’s infancy then!

 

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Posted: 25 November 2012 12:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 24 November 2012 03:00 PM

And what could be a greater miracle than the Phineas Gage story. The guy should have been killed instantly after an iron tamping bar shot through his head an through his brain. A miracle? Ask a brain surgeon. Did god spare him for some important work in the future? Well, he toured the circus for a whie as the rumor goes. Pretty grisly account though.

LL.  Gage did suffer substantial mental deficits after the accident, however.

There is a surgical procedure called hemispherectomy, where half the brain is removed, usually to stop persistent epileptic seizures. People can survive the loss of a large part of the brain and function well.  No miracles involved. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy

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Posted: 25 November 2012 12:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 24 November 2012 03:00 PM

And what could be a greater miracle than the Phineas Gage story. The guy should have been killed instantly after an iron tamping bar shot through his head an through his brain. A miracle? Ask a brain surgeon. Did god spare him for some important work in the future? Well, he toured the circus for a whie as the rumor goes. Pretty grisly account though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

 

Cap’t Jack

Agreed!

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Posted: 25 November 2012 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 25 November 2012 10:58 AM

... But how he (Phineas) escaped an infection is beyond me as nuero science was in it’s infancy then!

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The iron bar shot thru his head almost instantaneously.  It was covered with blood and brain matter.  So there simply may have been no bacteria from the bar, left behind, to cause an infection.  Just a thought.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I don’t know Tim, and maybe Asanta can wade in again but the bar would have dragged in particulates of dirt and grime just as bullets would push a piece of shirt and uninform into a wound and if left unattended would cause septicemia to set in. The most famous account is Lincoln’s head wound where Dr. Leale, the first physician to get to him found the head wound and pushed his little finger into it to relieve the pressure but just made it worse. Modern experiments show that it would have raised the pressure. Later, when Liccoln’s own doctor examined him he jammed a steel probe into the wound track twice looking for the bullet doing even more damage! Medicine hadn’t advanced much beyond Washington’s day. Glad to be Livin’ in the 21st Century! Speculation is that if he had the wound today he would have lost all sight, and hearing but would still live, if you could call it that.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155093/Abraham-Lincoln-assassination-Dr-Charles-Leales-long-lost-medical-report-details-treatment-president-shot-Ford-Theatre.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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Posted: 25 November 2012 02:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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My thought was that any bacteria on the bar would have been confined to the blood and brain matter that came out with the bar.  And that the best treatment for Phineas would have been to just leave it alone, except to protect the external wounds from infection.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 06:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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My thought was that any bacteria on the bar would have been confined to the blood and brain matter that came out with the bar.  And that the best treatment for Phineas would have been to just leave it alone, except to protect the external wounds from infection.


That’s pretty much what they did and as to the long term effects, his personality was said to have changed. It made him more surly and quick tempered. Of course, we’d be too if an iron bar suddenly shot through our head!


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Posted: 25 November 2012 08:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 25 November 2012 06:00 PM

That’s pretty much what they did and as to the long term effects, his personality was said to have changed. It made him more surly and quick tempered. Of course, we’d be too if an iron bar suddenly shot through our head!


Cap’t Jack

That would be enough to give me a permanent bad attitude.

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Posted: 25 November 2012 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 25 November 2012 10:58 AM

Ah ha! Even more evidence to prove the existence of miracles! These patients were saved by god for a purpose. One of them may invent the longer lasting light bulb. Of course not true. But how he escaped an infection is beyond me as nuero science was in it’s infancy then!

Cap’t Jack

There are a couple of reasons why he may not have succumbed to infection.  First, it is difficult for people to imagine in our current situation where antibiotics are massively overused for everything from colds to minor scrapes, but our immune system is pretty efficient at clearing infections even when we suffer life threatening wounds. The majority of deep wounds will heal without the death of the patient even if no antibiotics are given as long as the wound is cleaned and cared for with regular dressing changes.

Secondly, the Tamping bar that pierced this mans head may not have been as laden with bacteria as you might think. It was used to tamp down gunpowder into a deep bore hole in a rock. The rod was made of steel which is not porous while I can’t say for sure, its possible that the friction with the bore hole nd contact with gun powder may have reduced the amount of bacterial contamination.

Finally, the accident occurred when the tamping triggered the gunpowder resulting in an explosion that shot the metal rod from the hole. The heat from the explosion may have further reduced the bacterial count on the metal rod as is usually the case when someone is shot with a bullet. Contrary to popular opinion ( and TV shows) you don’t need to remove a bullet to prevent infection when someone is shot. The heat of detonation in the gun barrel essentially sterilizes the bullet. Bullets are in fact often left within the wound if its felt that it poses little risk otherwise

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Posted: 25 November 2012 11:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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macgyver - 25 November 2012 09:02 PM
Thevillageatheist - 25 November 2012 10:58 AM

Ah ha! Even more evidence to prove the existence of miracles! These patients were saved by god for a purpose. One of them may invent the longer lasting light bulb. Of course not true. But how he escaped an infection is beyond me as nuero science was in it’s infancy then!

Cap’t Jack

There are a couple of reasons why he may not have succumbed to infection.  First, it is difficult for people to imagine in our current situation where antibiotics are massively overused for everything from colds to minor scrapes, but our immune system is pretty efficient at clearing infections even when we suffer life threatening wounds. The majority of deep wounds will heal without the death of the patient even if no antibiotics are given as long as the wound is cleaned and cared for with regular dressing changes.

Secondly, the Tamping bar that pierced this mans head may not have been as laden with bacteria as you might think. It was used to tamp down gunpowder into a deep bore hole in a rock. The rod was made of steel which is not porous while I can’t say for sure, its possible that the friction with the bore hole nd contact with gun powder may have reduced the amount of bacterial contamination.

Finally, the accident occurred when the tamping triggered the gunpowder resulting in an explosion that shot the metal rod from the hole. The heat from the explosion may have further reduced the bacterial count on the metal rod as is usually the case when someone is shot with a bullet. Contrary to popular opinion ( and TV shows) you don’t need to remove a bullet to prevent infection when someone is shot. The heat of detonation in the gun barrel essentially sterilizes the bullet. Bullets are in fact often left within the wound if its felt that it poses little risk otherwise

That was my 2nd thought that the heat from the explosion might have sterilized the bar, but I went with my 1st hypothesis.

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