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Are we atheistic Humanists able to predict the Next religious tradition?
Posted: 04 December 2012 07:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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Quoting FredW:

I don’t mind you being active in the thread.  Only that I want it to concentrate on my naive take on. . .

  Oh, gee.  Aren’t you being magnanimous?  Members almost always diverge from the original title of the thread, especially if they see a more interesting facet, and you don’t own the forum.  I haven’t complained about your system of writing your posts off-line into your word processer then copying them onto the forum without removing the line breaks or hard returns so you only fill 40 to 50% of the page even though seeing that formatting of your posts consistently pisses me off.

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Posted: 04 December 2012 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Sandy Price - 04 December 2012 06:45 AM

I’m delighted to meet you Lois.  I settled on a set of priorities years ago and apparently there are a lot of us who have managed to survive without hurting too many others.  I read a lot of sadness on these threads and many opening their hearts in searching for a grand moment to debate.  I even pick up a certain guilt for choosing a secular form of belief in place of the great love of a religious leader to guide us as individuals. 

Yesterday I watched a great movie based on a book I had read years ago called “Angels and Demons” by Dan Brown.  My kids had read the book when they visited Rome and were able to follow the maps described in the Vatican and watch the murder mystery unravel as they stood at the places that were clues to the mystery.  We are not Catholics and the symbolism had to be researched and Dam Brown made this easy.  I was not with them on this trip but I could only imagine their delight to be part of the design.  This is my youngest daughter and her husband and is the one who shares her emotions with me.  My oldest girl is involved in Buddhism and lives in her belly button trying to find herself.  Without a sense of humor, she remains an outcast to the rest of my insane DNA-sharing family.  She is 55 years old and has rejected us for some unknown reason and we pretend to be concerned and we step carefully over her without hurting her in any way.  She does not pretend to be hilariously impacted by the rest of us and of course, we will not be rejected again. 

Anyway, this movie hits the highlights of the Bible and how the world must change to stay involved.  It is a fairly tale with serious and deadly actions found in the mystery of the Catholic Church.  One must pay attention to the clues to discover why, how and who kills in such a dramatic and colorful way.  My husband had been a nuclear physicist who had contact with the building of the CERN collider and judging from the number of accidents he had driving to work on the freeway, he managed to be a pro on the word “collider.”  He was between wives so I sent him some of the descriptions in the book and he cleared up the association for me. 

The book is filled with questions on why we ever designed this strange God that controls many of our lives.  In the time of the Inquisitions, the Vatican certainly was successful in scaring the Bejesus out of the humans of the Roman Empire.  We are still reeling with this frightening Catholic overtones found in the Tea Party of this last few months of American political actions.  The word “Evangelical” causes me to lock my doors at night for the first time in decades.

How lonesome must Americans be to be taken in by this itshay?  How can we help each other through this?


Just by being available and compassionate, I think.  Religious belief is a very hard nut to crack.

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Posted: 05 December 2012 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Occam. - 04 December 2012 07:13 PM

Quoting FredW:

I don’t mind you being active in the thread.  Only that I want it to concentrate on my naive take on. . .

  Oh, gee.  Aren’t you being magnanimous?  Members almost always diverge from the original title of the thread, especially if they see a more interesting facet, and you don’t own the forum.  I haven’t complained about your system of writing your posts off-line into your word processer then copying them onto the forum without removing the line breaks or hard returns so you only fill 40 to 50% of the page even though seeing that formatting of your posts consistently pisses me off.

Occam

Oh sorry. I get heavy bashing for being a derailer myself on many forums
so I tried my best here to be on topic but if you feel that bad about me
then I gladly leave now.

The hard line break is for to be able to read what I write.
I thought them where very helpful.

Sad indeed

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Posted: 05 December 2012 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Fred, I was considering a new approach in communicating with you.  I do not want arguments based on misunderstandings,  I will never back away from a damn good fight based on a difference of opinions.  I live in a different world based on a different set of values which happens when we do not define our terms seriously.  I am surrounded by a combination of humans starting at the age of 5 who possess serious points of view on all subjects.  At the other end of the age spectrum I have my own age groupies from 80 through and including mid 90s.  We are the ones who can laugh loudly and with great joy, subjects and opinions that must be responded to quickly or their words will be forgotten. 

We will argue about a wonderful actor whose name is gone from our memory but who was married to that other great actress who won the oscar the same year as what’s her name married my cousin.  By then, the entire subject is gone and we can rehatch the subject next week.  Don’t laugh Fred, you will be among us in a few years.  This is not unique among humans.  I have a 24 year old cat.  When an old friend of mine shows up at my home, my “Emma” will approach this human and take a good sniff and then close her eyes trying to determine whether this smell is a familiar one.  She will often spend some time trying to check out whether this new smell is friendly but her memory, like mine, is faulty and it takes some time before a friendship can be renewed.  My old dog loved everyone and no need to renew any emotion.  She was a yellow lab and would often bring a toy to the visitor to show trust. 

I am going to open again my attempt to start another try and ask you a question.  You mentioned your interest in music.  May I ask what kind of music interests you?  Do you play an instrument?  When you wander around your house or yard, what do you hum or whistle?  What music is on your car radio?

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Posted: 05 December 2012 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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Sorry Sandy the reaction I got from Occam where so negative
taht I have decided to leave this forum.

I sure love music but I don’t have the coordination needed to play or sing.
One need muscle control for to be able to play well. I’ve tried Keyboard
and Guitar and Flute and almost anything. Name it and I have tested to
take out melodies I have ADD/ADHD my attention span is too short.

I lose the melory and rhythm within seconds. Same when I read texts online.
I drown in all the details a few words further down I already lost what it started with
and reading back lose it next time I come furtther down. I am a confused person.

Wish you all the best and good luck. Music is a good way to make friends locally.

My neighbor 82 years old he love Jazz Swing and Big Orchestra but also Nat King Cole
and such so maybe you two would find each other. He does not like my preferred
music that is Rock and Country ballades. Dolly Parton I will always love you when she
sings it turns me into tears almost always. Her Little Sparrow is very good too.

search youtube if you ahve not heard her before?

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Posted: 05 December 2012 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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Well Fred, I have been pushed off of many forums for my approach to debating many subjects.  Occam is the head honcho here and has a position of keeping us all under control.  It must be like herding cats.  The subject of religion is extremely difficult to locate a common attitude as it is the one subject that cannot be contained. 

I no longer can play a musical instrument due to arthritis in my fingers and an accident that damaged my right hand.  However my life centers on music to the point where my reading books centers around composers, instrumentalists and singers.  I grew up with opera singers and have followed many of the best singers from their beginnings through their final years where they taught their talents to others.  Teaching is the extension of their musical lives down to the discovery of other performers.  It is not unusual for a singer to match up with a conductor even down to marrying them.  Following the opera singers through their careers starting with recitals and then through their affiliation with opera companies all over the world can be exciting. 

The New York Metropolitican Opera company is now putting their productions on DVDs and my collection of these productions is growing.  I started out collecting VHS tapes and now have a great start with DVDs.  NPR had live performances of Richard Wagner’s Ring Cycle which is a series of operas on the myth of Wotan and his Daughters and how the story continues based on the great myth of Valhalla.  I tried to tape all of the Ring on VHS but my television was old and much of the tape quality was not good.  My daughter ordered all 7 disks (DVDs)  for me for Christmas and these disks are the center of my opera collection.  I can listen and/or watch all the Wagner operas.  I also was given a satellite radio where I can receive live broadcasts from   the Met. Opera performances.  I drive my neighbors quite mad with the sound of these productions.  I had to listen to the Grateful Dead from my older daughter and that was a stretch of my patience.  My son allowed us all to put up with Elvis for years and we came to an arrangement that he could play his stuff upstairs and I kept my stuff downstairs. 

I grew up with the 40s jazz during WW2 and was a tad bored with the sound.  But music has been the culture of my existence for most of my years.  I carefully planned my senior years to live alone so I could listen to my own music and read my own books at my own time. I hooked up with a Shakespearean group and became part of their productions based on my ability to research and sew their costumes.  I spent a summer with the Shakespearean group from the University of California from Santa Barbara and I went with 40 students whose interests were based on the history of the Bard and I never had a better summer.  My own girls were in college and covered my book store while I was gone. 

We all love Shakespeare and will hunt down any play being given where ever we happen to be.  I’m the only one who saw his plays where they were written.  We have all visited Oregon’s Productions.  We follow Opera in the same way.

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Posted: 05 December 2012 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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You sure love music. Not sure how to respond.
Is it okay if I say that your taste of/for music is the expert
and my taste of/for music are the naive newbie Blueberry beginnner smile .

You listen to those heavy Opera while I barely can stomach
one of the songs in the easy to enjoy Operas.

I fail to stand the vibrato tremolo. Compare these two.

Ane Brun - Lamento Della Ninfa (Amor, Oh Love)

she is a Rock or Pop singer I guess have not read up on her.
She sings that well known number as a pop and Rock ballad
singer would do. She has many versions of it on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/

watch?v=UrMuIYmJ4Y0

From my naive approach she does it much better than the proffessional singers

Then we have the more in your style like
http://www.youtube.com/

watch?v=XQZ83THDMBk
Jordi Savall - Lamento Della Ninfa (Claudio Monteverdi)

Director and the singer is the one he liked best
Montserrat Figueras
Do you have CD with them I trust?

I grew up with Little Richard and his version of Rock’nRoll
but I also listen to Blues.
I wonder what you think of this guy.

T-Model Ford - Everything’s Gonna Be Alright
http://www.youtube.com/

watch?v=En2wKGvkAQo

To me that is a masterpiece. Many have sanged that song
and he does it best from my naive take on singing.

What about this kind of music
Christian Borlaug spiller Fanitullen på hardingfele
http://www.youtube.com/

watch?v=cc-WGo4N8h8

You ahve to paste the url together I don’t want it to start playing
for every person that happen to enter the forum by chance
that would not be fair. Hope it is okay to link to YT?

To Occam. When one have dyslexia the only way to be able to read
is to have short sentences and that creates the hard line breaks sorry

[ Edited: 05 December 2012 01:58 PM by FredW ]
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Posted: 05 December 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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First, for Sandy:  I’m not the head honcho.  That title goes to Doug.  I’m just a moderator.  Second for Fred: If you have dyslexia, how can you read the posts of others, since they are full screen?  And, since you’ve already written your posts, it’s going to be others without dyslexia, not you, who read them, as a courtesy to them, you could eliminate the half screen style.

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Posted: 05 December 2012 09:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 30 November 2012 10:57 AM

With spiritual guidance from literally above, we see a very different scenario going on which is a duplication of the spiritual confusion that happened around 2100-1900 years ago when the Spirit of Christ phenomena struck the Holy Land and spread out.

No. We don’t.

Bub, this is the wrong place to attempt apologetics and foisting of evengelical stupidity for fact. I gaurantee you, the people here know the Bible and it’s related works and the scholarship much better then you do.

I guarantee you you need to learn English and how to think straight instead of foisting your own brand of atheist fundamentalist dullard believer on us with your lack of historical knowledge which you don’t even seem to recognize. I’m talking about Western Civilization? Ring any bells on how it originated in the confluence of Christianity and pagan societies? You know the Holy Land? Rome, Constantin, Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire, European history rife with religious wars between Christians and even up unto this very day where we “Christians” are the modern Crusaders freeing the Holy Land from the terrible infidels and they say the same thing? And you say this has nothing to do with world history showing a very similar pattern of spiritual warfare and confusion that happened around 2000 years ago? You need to take some history lessons.

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Posted: 06 December 2012 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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I guarantee you you need to learn English and how to think straight instead of foisting your own brand of atheist fundamentalist dullard believer on us with your lack of historical knowledge which you don’t even seem to recognize.

There is no such thing as atheistic fundementalism.

And I know my history quite well thank you very much.

The [i[real histories. Not the doctrinairre nonsense which you keep mistaking for fact.

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Posted: 06 December 2012 12:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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Occam.you and I can agree to disagree
or set each other on ignore.

The friendly take is to write short like this.
the unfriendly is to write long long things out in the right space.

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Posted: 06 December 2012 05:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 06 December 2012 12:10 AM

I guarantee you you need to learn English and how to think straight instead of foisting your own brand of atheist fundamentalist dullard believer on us with your lack of historical knowledge which you don’t even seem to recognize.

There is no such thing as atheistic fundementalism.

And I know my history quite well thank you very much.

The [i[real histories. Not the doctrinairre nonsense which you keep mistaking for fact.

Well, whatever you’re calling your private “real history” seems not to be shared by historians of Western Civilization who don’t have your fundamentalist atheist biases that keep you from looking at facts and logically processing them, e.g. your inability to register the gigantic historical impact of Christianity on the development of Western Civilization. That you can’t see this reflects the classic fundamentalist mindset that refuses to recognize anything that counters the fundamentalist belief system that can only be held by blind faith, in this case, blind faith that atheism is not an absurd philosophy that continually ignores human advances in science when those advances strike at the atheist mindset, e.g. ignoring 40,000 years of intense human activity centered around spiritual events plus the evolution of human brains to process spiritual phenomena creating people like me who’s spiritual reception capacity isn’t disabled as it seems to be in the atheist brain that is locked into left-brain hemisphere domination that excludes right-brain knowledge of the world. Look, I’ve said this many times now and unless you or other atheists have something to bring to the discussion besides, “no, it isn’t so” or crummy infantile putdowns of theists and theism, then let’s move on, OK?

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Posted: 06 December 2012 05:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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arielmessenger - 06 December 2012 05:13 AM
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 06 December 2012 12:10 AM

I guarantee you you need to learn English and how to think straight instead of foisting your own brand of atheist fundamentalist dullard believer on us with your lack of historical knowledge which you don’t even seem to recognize.

There is no such thing as atheistic fundementalism.

And I know my history quite well thank you very much.

The [i[real histories. Not the doctrinairre nonsense which you keep mistaking for fact.

Well, whatever you’re calling your private “real history” seems not to be shared by historians of Western Civilization who don’t have your fundamentalist atheist biases that keep you from looking at facts and logically processing them, e.g. your inability to register the gigantic historical impact of Christianity on the development of Western Civilization. That you can’t see this reflects the classic fundamentalist mindset that refuses to recognize anything that counters the fundamentalist belief system that can only be held by blind faith, in this case, blind faith that atheism is not an absurd philosophy that continually ignores human advances in science when those advances strike at the atheist mindset, e.g. ignoring 40,000 years of intense human activity centered around spiritual events plus the evolution of human brains to process spiritual phenomena creating people like me who’s spiritual reception capacity isn’t disabled as it seems to be in the atheist brain that is locked into left-brain hemisphere domination that excludes right-brain knowledge of the world. Look, I’ve said this many times now and unless you or other atheists have something to bring to the discussion besides, “no, it isn’t so” or crummy infantile putdowns of theists and theism, then let’s move on, OK?

Move on to what?

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Posted: 06 December 2012 05:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Fred,

Everyone has difficulties reading long lines, not only people with dislexia. A text line with more than 78 characters is very difficult to follow for anybody—which is why legal copy is usually much longer; I know this because I have designed bank forms to be purposely unreadable.

Adding a hard return to separate your lines, however, is not a good solution. If my screen is smaller than your length of lines, it will create a horrible mess. The best thing to do is adding hard returns only to separate paragraphs and let the rest of your text flow freely. Any one of us (except those using smart phones) can adjust the width of their page and the length of lines automatically with it as per their preference.

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Posted: 06 December 2012 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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Occam. - 05 December 2012 05:46 PM

First, for Sandy:  I’m not the head honcho.  That title goes to Doug.  I’m just a moderator.  Second for Fred: If you have dyslexia, how can you read the posts of others, since they are full screen?  And, since you’ve already written your posts, it’s going to be others without dyslexia, not you, who read them, as a courtesy to them, you could eliminate the half screen style.

Occam

Well, being a Moderator is higher here than a simple poster….no?  I seem to be lower on the charts here and it suits me very well.  I celebrate humanism with a full throttle.  It is a division of our species that grows higher and better with every generation.  What I should do is take break and read up on the rules of etiquette on the proper way of jousting with others.  My two points of interest are religion and politics.  It is rare to find both blended as well as it is done on CFI. 

I can understand the question to Fred but feel it may be up to us to find the answer to help Fred open up to some of us. 

May I ask a question on the subject of this thread?  Must we assume there WILL be the Next religious tradition?  Will there ever be a time when the next tradition will be free of religion?  Will our humans ever figure out that tradition often brings wars among all other humans.  In reading and listening to the Republican Primary candidates it was pretty obvious that wars are good for workers and jobs were the base for the political plans.

Add the War on Terror to the above political network and the problems solve themselves.  We must stay at war and in order to do this, we must double our Defense Spending.  This is the kind of problem solving that runs though the minds of men like Romney.  It comes from a sickness of demanding over-breeding of the women.  It is similar to the thoroughbred breeding charts that raise the odds before the Kentucky Derby.  I decided at the age of 9 that I would not be a brood mare and stopped attending the church.  My Bishop Grandfather nearly had a stroke when I explained this to him.  I loved the old fellow and he stopped attending the church services too!  My grandmother was convinced that I won that battle.

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