macgyver - 08 December 2012 07:00 AM
The point you were making was that firearm ownership buys us greater freedoms so to assert that firearm ownership is also an example of our greater freedom is circular reasoning.
That’s not what I said, quite the opposite… There you interpreted me wrong.
On this issue pertaining to Switzerland, a citizen is required to own military firearms, as all male citizens are automatically drafted into the army (militia) and must retain their weapons at home. When the citizen is discharged He may keep the weapon but it is altered to a semiautomatic condition. Also, the government controls the ammunition supply for these guns. This is where the laws differ from ours, but one can own a weapon in Switzerland by obtaining a permit. Also, the laws for black powder gun ownership are similar to the US. These are referred to as “free weapons” as the laws pertaining to them are not as strict. This policy seems to mirror English law BTW. remarkably, the crime rate involving firearms is very low.
And this from the gun laws of your home country: the Netherlands
Aspiring sport shooters must join a gun club. Application for gun club membership involves a trial period, allowing the club to find out who they are dealing with, and a background check by the Justice ministry. A criminal record - particularly one involving violent incidents –would disqualify the applicant. Currently, there are about 42,000 gun owners registered with the Koninklijke Nederlandse Schutters Associatie (Royal Dutch Riflemen’s Association). All gun clubs are registered with the KNSA, which maintains close contact with the Justice ministry.
After one year of membership – during which period the new member can practice with guns owned by the club – members can apply for a gun permit and, if granted, purchase their first gun. After the second year of membership, gun owners can buy more guns, to a maximum of five. Guns and ammunition kept at home must be stored in separate strongboxes. The police regularly make house-calls to check whether the guns registered in a person’s name are actually in his possession and whether they are properly stored.
Permit revoked
Members of shooting clubs are only allowed to own guns which are suitable for use in KNSA-approved shooting matches which, for instance, rules out short-barreled revolvers and all automatic weapons which are unsuited to competitive shooting. Also, gun owners can only legally transport their guns and/or ammunition either from their home to their gun club, to a licensed gunsmith, to the police station (for inspection) or to a shooting match they hold an invitation to. All of the above via the shortest possible route.
As gun ownership is regarded as a privilege, almost any violation of the gun laws will automatically lead to the shooter’s gun permit being revoked. Involvement in a violent incident, or even driving a car under the influence of alcohol, will also result in the permit being revoked.
Who could possibly object to this system? Food for thought for American gun owners! of course survivalists and manufacturers would object to restrictions covering automatic weapons.
On this issue pertaining to Switzerland, a citizen is required to own military firearms, as all male citizens are automatically drafted into the army (militia) and must retain their weapons at home. When the citizen is discharged He may keep the weapon but it is altered to a semiautomatic condition. Also, the government controls the ammunition supply for these guns. This is where the laws differ from ours, but one can own a weapon in Switzerland by obtaining a permit. Also, the laws for black powder gun ownership are similar to the US. These are referred to as “free weapons” as the laws pertaining to them are not as strict. This policy seems to mirror English law BTW. remarkably, the crime rate involving firearms is very low.
That is all correct, AFAIK. But: try to buy a simple hand gun in Switzerland… I don’t know how easy it is to get such a permit.
BTW, there is a pretty strong movement against having army weapons at home in CH. Just one or two more killings with the army rifle, and it is over… It is just mythological remnant of having a ‘people’s army’. Compare this with Israel, where a war is more or less realistic. Switzerland is surrounded by enemies European countries. So no reason to have the ability to defend the country in less than one hour.
That is all correct, AFAIK. But: try to buy a simple hand gun in Switzerland… I don’t know how easy it is to get such a permit.
BTW, there is a pretty strong movement against having army weapons at home in CH. Just one or two more killings with the army rifle, and it is over… It is just mythological remnant of having a ‘people’s army’. Compare this with Israel, where a war is more or less realistic. Switzerland is surrounded by enemies European countries. So no reason to have the ability to defend the country in less than one hour.
However, I like the Dutch rules more…
From what I’ve read it’s extremely difficult to own a hand gun and the permit is granted by the gov’t and not by a Canton not to say that they have the same authority as a state in the US. I don’t know about your analogy about being surrounded by non belligerent countries though. We aren’t either and really never have been since 1815. Neither Canada nor Mexico posed much of a threat. I still believe it has to do with the popular myth of Ameica always being a “gun culture” when stats show otherwise. That plus you guys don’t have an extremely powerful gun lobby like the NRA. I do like the Dutch rules also as it would give us shooters a place to practice our hobby while monitoring the nuts.
I am struck by two things. 1) The extraordinary degree to which our (U.S) young people die by violence such as homicide or accidental shootings., and 2) New Zealand’s extraordinary rate of suicides in that age group (What’s up with that?)
Not enough women. And so men lose their loved ones at slaughter time…baahh
I doubt that too. But I (Dutch living in Switzerland) are astonished that in the USA firearms are so easily available. Except people who live under a continuous threat (not an imagined threat), nobody should be allowed firearms.
Because nobody should kill. Firearms are for killing only.
Why do you think that so many more (young) people are killed in the USA with firearms than in other western countries?
And don’t come with this macho ‘everybody has the right to defend himself’.
Because nobody should kill. Firearms are for killing only.
Why do you think that so many more (young) people are killed in the USA with firearms than in other western countries?
And don’t come with this macho ‘everybody has the right to defend himself’.
Why should nobody kill? I disagree, there are many people who need to be killed,IMO.
The Americans who are mostly killed by firearms are asking for it with their behavior; our society is not missing anything by them dying, I can assure you of that.
On that note, other western countries should start killing more, if they want to continue to exist.
The Americans who are mostly killed by firearms are asking for it with their behavior; our society is not missing anything by them dying, I can assure you of that.
That is utter bullshit, and quite offensive to anyone who has lost a friend or family member to domestic violence with a firearm. I used to like you MA, but now I see you are an unthinking jerk. Do you remember what Dick Cheney said?
I know this may sounds anachronistic but it’s part of my personal philosophy: No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main…Any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind…therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. There are fellow humans out there who need to be shut away from mankind, some forever but an eye for an eye isn’t the solution. There was enough killing in the last century to last us forever. Atheists can be just as compassionate as theists if not more so as we don’t use a deity to excuse our actions. Just a thought, not a judgmental sermon.
Yes, and we should throw atomic bombs at Iran, Irak, Cuba etc.
Owning Firearms and using Nuclear weapons are two very different things.
Yeah, and suggesting that people killed by firearms were asking for it is disgusting. One of my cousins died from domestic violence a few decades ago, as did one of my friend’s daughter a few years ago. Your comment I quoted above is unconscionable. Quit trying to justify your doltishness. You have stepped far across any line of respectability in this conversation. Just shut up and quit digging yourself deeper into a hole.
The Americans who are mostly killed by firearms are asking for it with their behavior; our society is not missing anything by them dying, I can assure you of that.
That is utter bullshit, and quite offensive to anyone who has lost a friend or family member to domestic violence with a firearm. I used to like you MA, but now I see you are an unthinking jerk. Do you remember what Dick Cheney said?
Have you lost a friend or family member to firearm violence?
You’re overreacting, I claimed that most people who are killed by misuse of firearms are asking for it - not everyone.
