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Posted: 15 December 2012 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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Assault rifles should be banned, and the ability to buy guns at gun shows, and to buy online gun paraphernalia, virtually unchecked, should be banned.  Gun ownership itself should not be banned, IMO.  Even in this event, I will not support that.


I’m not advocating banning gun ownership, that would impossible here. What I do want to see is tighter restrictions, not just filling in a form and waiting for 10 days. First off, all military-style assault weapons should be banned for over-the-counter sale and gun shows. Also all conversion kits that allow for converting semi-auto weapons to full auto. Next machine pistols, I.e. Uzi type full auto weapons. There should be tighter restrictions on gun ownership by former felons, in short NO former felon should be allowed to own a gun. Next, handgun owners should be required to buy a gun lock for each gun to keep it safe in the home, especially one with kids in the house. background checks should be more thorough to include anyone with a chronic psychological disorder. None of the above is one hundred percent fail safe and one could argue that you can kill someone with a tire iron. True, but you couldn’t kill 78people in a theater or 18 kids in a School. Already the counter argument is being presented that the whacko in China who stabbed 22 kids at an elementary school proves that anyone can do massive harm without a gun and that’s true to a point. Many of those students will live however, even though traumatized for life and a knife doesn’t have the power to maim and kill like a 9mm bullet at close OR long range. My question is how many more of these incidents will it take for the people to realize that a plan needs to be put in place to protect us all from depressed psychopaths and drug dealers? And this at a time when states and municipalities are cutting their police departments to save a buck. The NRA’s solution is to arm everyone against criminals. So do I shove a pistol in my pants or holster my gun when I go to the mall? The day before the school shooting I attended a workshop and was talking to one of the computer techs about the Aurora theater shooting. We are both gun owners, he hunts and I target shoot but we both own several firearms. His remark about the theater incident was that “if everyone in the theater was armed then this wouldn’t have happened”. I replied “if everyone was armed it would have been a slaughter as bystanders would have been in the line of fire from every angle”. More guns on the streets won’t ensure everyone’s safety and this is not the old west as some would like it to be. Those days were brief and thankfully over. Let’s not bring them back again. There are too many kids out there and they want to be able to grow up.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 15 December 2012 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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The “arm everyone” argument is insane. In the old west the person who was fastest with the gun or the best shot was the one who survived. Is that society we want to live in again? More guns simply means more opportunity for accidents and mayhem.  How would it have helped here?  Are our 5 and 6 year olds supposed to walk around with a gun at their side and their elementary school teachers too? Arming everyone is just a simple minded solution to a complex problem that will only make things much worse.

The thing that I find most frustrating about these events is the parade of people who have easy answers to solve the problem. TV reporters and people on the street were suggesting we should have metal detectors and guards at the schools as if that would fix the problem. Are we supposed to have them at the mall ( see last weeks news) and at the movie theater too ( remember this past summers events?). If you lock down one area a truly motivated and deranged individual will simply seek out an easier target that is crowded with people. Human beings a very resourceful especially when they have lots of time on their hands to work out the details. You cant guard the whole planet nor should we.

It might be reasonable to restrict gun access more but this kid used his mothers guns. You could outlaw assault weapons ( and we should) but this was done with handguns and he killed plenty of people. You can also prevent people with a psych history from owning guns but he didnt have such a history and requiring psychiatrists to report concerns to officials will most likely have unintended and serious consequences. Patients may be afraid to get help if they think their condition might be reported to authorities and without help they may be more likely to kill. What if the therapist is wrong and a truly harmless individual is then persecuted by law enforcement?

Society really needs to be careful not to take a knee jerk approach to these sorts of events but if history is any example, knee jerk reactions are exactly what will happen.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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I agree, Thevillageatheist. In Canada, we are having an opposing trend towards more conservatism while you guys are recognizing a lot of the perils of it. They set up a gun registry here by one government only to have the next (Conservatives) purposely overspend, bankrupt, and abandon it. At the moment, we don’t have close to the abilities that you guys do though. No one can carry a gun without permit but the permit is absolutely special and would never be granted to the civil public without some extreme reason. Other than hunters for hunting in the woods, farmers for special protections, and police and military, no one else is allowed to carry. I find it absolutely weird that the average joe in the States can carry a weapon.

I know that case law here recognizes that in times of duress, if someone were to break in your house even, you are not permitted to use any force more necessary to protect yourself. One famous case was a grandmother who shot what she thought was a stranger breaking in her house. It was her grandson who lost his keys. So it is understood that if someone comes at you with a knife at a sufficiently safe distance, for example, you don’t need to use a firearm to protect yourself. Although controversial, in most aggressive situations, which are usually domestic in nature, more harm is likely to occur with more counter-aggression with weapons of any sort. A martial artist friend told me once that if anyone even pulls out a knife in a fight even if they do not intend to use it, it is almost a certainty that blood will be drawn!

On a personal note, I’m a military brat who did live in the States for a while when I was young (Washington D.C.) and my parents were permitted and carried weapons. My mother had a special Luger pistol (I believe from her parents??). We moved back to Canada and so my mother stored her handgun in the pantry on the top shelf. My dad’s rifles were way too big for us to play with at the time but that handgun, easily found, intrigued me. I did play with it and even took it out to play with another friend. I went up to him and said, “stick ‘em up” while I put the gun to his head. He just told me, nonchalantly that his Mom said that he wasn’t allowed to play. I thought he didn’t take me seriously enough and told him that this was a real gun and pulled the trigger. Although it was empty, I had no way of knowing it at the time and everything could have been very different from that day on. Since it didn’t phase him and I had nobody to play with, I put it back and forgot about it. But what if it was preloaded? What if my friend wanted to play and we got more curious about how it worked?

I’d like the idea that I could carry something powerful that would make me feel secure in a dangerous environment. But sometimes, it creates or enhances the very danger that you’re trying to avoid in the first place.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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The thing that I find most frustrating about these events is the parade of people who have easy answers to solve the problem. TV reporters and people on the street were suggesting we should have metal detectors and guards at the schools as if that would fix the problem. Are we supposed to have them at the mall ( see last weeks news) and at the movie theater too ( remember this past summers events?). If you lock down one area a truly motivated and deranged individual will simply seek out an easier target that is crowded with people. Human beings a very resourceful especially when they have lots of time on their hands to work out the details. You cant guard the whole planet nor should we.

It might be reasonable to restrict gun access more but this kid used his mothers guns. You could outlaw assault weapons ( and we should) but this was done with handguns and he killed plenty of people. You can also prevent people with a psych history from owning guns but he didnt have such a history and requiring psychiatrists to report concerns to officials will most likely have unintended and serious consequences. Patients may be afraid to get help if they think their condition might be reported to authorities and without help they may be more likely to kill. What if the therapist is wrong and a truly harmless individual is then persecuted by law enforcement?

Society really needs to be careful not to take a knee jerk approach to these sorts of events but if history is any example, knee jerk reactions are exactly what will happen.

 

 

Gun control legislation is not knee jerk Mac, it’s been around since the Kennedy assassination. However, it was knee jerk then as Congress passed laws to destroy as many surplus WW II weapons as possible by cutting them up for scrap. We have to act on this now and not be paralyzed by inaction through fear of the 2nd Amendment. Yes, he killed with readily available police used handguns which are available to me at our local bait and tackle shop,  and there will always be some psychopath who will clandestinely slip through the cracks and find a way to make his twisted point or because he likes to make humans suffer. There are limited ways to stop these predators but why make it so much easier for them to kill on a massive scale? Schools and other facilities have plans such as lock downs to hide the kids and adults; larger schools do have metal detectors and armed police patrols but these are counted as luxuries in many districts. Our schools here are completely locked with only one entrance and that through the front door. We can’t arm the teachers and wouldn’t anyway for fear of accidents. In short, we will never be completely safe from these monsters but we can make it a little harder for them to carry out their twisted fantasies by better regulation and until action is taken this is only going to get worse as there are always copycats and media fanatics who, like Bonnie and Clyde, want to “go down in a blaze of glory”.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 15 December 2012 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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The only effective way, Jack, to make it a little harder for people to shoot each other is to make guns illegal. I don’t know what else to add here since macgyver already said it all.

I am so disgusted by this whole thing that I better stop here. I have never felt this angry at human stupidity before.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 09:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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I cannot understand why people have assault weapons all over their homes.  Would it take an assault weapon to stop a home burglary?  I chose a Doberman when I discovered that the kids from the new high school were making themselves at home in my hillside house.  I was doing costumes for our theater and the kids would rip them apart just for the hell of it!  My cousin was a Malibu Sheriff and suggested I not get a gun but a trained Doberman.  It worked!  Nobody got anywhere near my front gate.  The only critter that would harm anyone was my Banty rooster.  Howard was a small but fierce rooster with 3 hens that he protected.  The combination of a large 80 pound doberman and an insane rooster worked as a team to protect the Price household.  Locking the front door was useless as the front of the house had leaded windows that were beautiful but easily pushed out. 

I am very nearsighted and would probably shoot myself in the foot.  We had free range hens and lots of cute chicks and they were very safe.

A girl friend of mine is driving up from Woodland Hills to help me out today.  I have a sore throat and a couple of dizzy spells and my pal will drive me over to the YMCA this afternoon so I can delivery my bags of toys for the children.  Since my kids and grandkids are all living the good life, I will tend to the kids of lesser means for Christmas.  My outside lights blew out the other night and my house looks more like the Scrooge residence until my daughter can fix the damn things!  I should never be allowed to plug in anything.  I will spend the weekend baking cookies to compensate for my lack of Christmas spirit.

I can’t stop thinking about those dear parents who lost their little kids.  There is nothing any of us do except change the law.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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Need to outlaw all concealed weapons and all pistols as well.  I have nothing against hunters but perhaps they should be required to belong to clubs that maintain arms rooms, as the military does, so weapons are not stored in the home, available for people to “borrow” or steal.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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My strongest sympathies to the children and their families cuaght up, through no fault of their own, in this tradegy. downer

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Posted: 15 December 2012 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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I saw the news report about this while sitting at my desk at the middle school where I teach.  I nearly became sick to my stomach.  The real truth that needs to be addressed is that you can kill a lot more people with a gun than with a knife, club, or even a sword.  The second amendment was written when a good rifleman could get off three shots in one minute, not sixteen shots as fast as one can pull the trigger.  Guns need to be controlled in this country so it is once again safe to leave your house.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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The only effective way, Jack, to make it a little harder for people to shoot each other is to make guns illegal. I don’t know what else to add here since macgyver already said it all.

I am so disgusted by this whole thing that I better stop here. I have never felt this angry at human stupidity before.

Same here George and I am so compassionate about this because it hits home. After retiring from teaching I picked up some sub jobs and the first one was two days in a kindergarten class where my granddaughter attends. while there I had the chance to interact with 25 five year olds. I couldn’t imagine what happened in that classroom in CT. and I’m finished posting about it. It was shocking and horrific and depressing. It would crush me as a parent.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 15 December 2012 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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The worst thing is that one has to go on living—assuming the person has more than one kid. If you lose all your kids, you just kill yourself and problem solved. But losing only one child must be the most difficult thing a person can experience.

But I guess having the right to own a gun is more important and worth this unbearable and eternal pain.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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You can’t make guns illegal.  The second Amendment has made guns legal from the first part of the Bill of Rights.  Killing people is against the law.  Apparently allowing humans to have rights seems to be the problem.  The Mother of the Lanza killer understood that her son was mentally unbalanced and yet she allowed him to use a weapon at the gun club range.  She knew he had access to her weapons but apparently she didn’t care.  My grandfather removed all the weapons in his home when he realized his sons and daughter had a terrible drinking problem.  He even took the keys to his old Packard away and the car put into storage.  Rules like this should come from the family not the state’s laws.

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Posted: 15 December 2012 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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Sandy Price - 15 December 2012 12:30 PM

You can’t make guns illegal. 

Of course you can and of course they should be.

Stephen

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Posted: 15 December 2012 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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It would take an amendment to the constitution.  All that would do would be to put guns on the black market.  Stephen, do you live in the USA?

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Posted: 15 December 2012 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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So what, Sandy? Let the criminals kill themselves. Better them than the kids. We have guns on black market in Canada, too (a lot of them!), but it doesn’t seem to affect people who are not interested in criminal behaviour.

And what is this nonsense about the Constitution? It’s not the 18th century anymore and your founding fathers were not infallible, were they?

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