The notion of conspiracy theories (CT) itself is pretty interesting.  People will go to great lengths to prove or disprove CT.  Others will go to great lengths to get ideas about a set of events labeled as CT. 

A good example of a CT would be the following: Let’s say it’s 40 years ago. A couple nutjob reporters are writing that numerous boys have been sexually molested by Catholic Priests, and that the upper echelons in the Church, like Bishops, have been actively covering it up. And that this has been happening throughout the US and indeed much of the world.  Remember this is 40 years ago.

You can imagine what you’d hear: the reporters must be atheists and hate the church, must be scumbags to impune or even suggest moral failings of Priests, servants of God.  And to suggest all these boys, priests, bishops, cardinals, etc. throughout America, or the world, are keeping quiet! Utterly ridiculous and anyone who buys into this crap has to be deranged.

And yet the reporters, as we now know, would have been completely correct. 

Of course we could also come up with something that turned out to be false.  The point is, just because something is labeled as CT doesn’t mean it’s true OR false. I do think the character and history of the people or institutions involved do matter though. In the case of Catholic Priests, I think they really did have a very positive image prior to all the revelations, so it was particularly hard to believe the truth.  In the case of 911, in my opinion at least, the reputation of the US government prior to the event (Dem and Repub alike) lead me to seriously consider that it was an inside job.  Buts that just my opinion.

My point is, CTs in themselves make up an interesting topic for discussion WITHOUT getting into particulars.

My point is, CTs in themselves make up an interesting topic for discussion WITHOUT getting into particulars.

As they say, the devil is in the details. Those who present conspiracy theories do so along with the claim that they’re true, and with any disconfirming evidence being treated as proof that “THEY” are up to no good and are trying to cover up “The Truth.” (The disproof is treated as the proof in other words.)

(See http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html for a fuller exposition on paranoid/conspiracy thoeries).

I don’t waste time on this sort of nonsense because such theories are on the whole, too complex, and this is a fatal flaw along with the secrecy aspect, to say nothing of the underlying assumption that government agencies and private interests are vastly more compatant then they really are..

There’s also an unmistakable aspect or racism and/or jingoism to go along with it. Something along the lines of “Them ragheads couldn’t have pulled something like that off against us Real Red Blooded Americans.” (Sound familier? it should.)

This is not to say that there haven’t been grand conspiracies. There have been, but the people who hatched them didn’t bother keeping anything about what they had in mind a secret. (Hitler literally wrote a book on what he had in mind, and everybody was shocked when he made it happen.)

I read somewhere an interesting theory about some of the CT.
I don’t know the details but it is similar to the Illuminati one.

Lizzard people and Reptoids? Lizzard and Reptoids are
maybe by some Dinosaurs that got so evolved and intelligent
that they left Earth and the UFO and Aliens are ruled by these
Lizzard/Reptoids and they came back to Earth and found that
Humans had evolved and they have ruled behind the scenes
now for thousands of years? I trust my retell is way of base
but something like that. Cool as a C movie but not very likely true.

Now most skeptics would just say BS and CT and that is it.

But this theory that tried to explain what was really going on
looked rather good to my naive take on it.

My retelling how I grasped that new theory but with much error.
Illuminati New World Order and Lizzard and Reptoids all of these
are rhetorical tools to bring over a message by stealth.

So see it like this. David Icke and all the others that have these CT
they know it to be imagined myth and not true but as rhetoric spin
it works very well.

It reaches the people they want to support them. The CT allows them
to travel the world around and sell their books and videos and to live on
this political myth. It is very similar to faith in God that way that for the
true believer it is really true but for those that control the myth it is
their tool for to control the true believer and keep a huge base of loyal
supporters for their true aim with the project. To saw distrust in the official
take on things and to send the message that we are oppressed and need
to resist and create sub under ground resistance movement ...

Most likely a right wing political plot that make use of heavy CT to destabilize
societies.

The myth is presented as secret truth that these bold persons dare to expose.
They become idols to the true believers most like Pop music idols and
they give the true believers hope that one day we will have endless free energy
and solve of all poor and lack of everything. The tech of the hidden power
will bring us a heaven on Earth if we throw them off our back and make revolution.

By being totally outrageous and absolutely ridiculous in their claims they
get rid of all persons that see through the propaganda and left is the true supporters
that believed in it as a real thing.

That way the can get their message out under the RADAR because it is too BS
to even criticize. Why spend time on something that lunatic? Very few take them
serious at all and that is how they can go on and slowly build up a solid economy
for their hidden message to become political right of the variant they belong to.

I don’t know if this theory really is the modus operandi of these CT people
but it looks okay to me. It is at least more likely than that it is just BS it is BS
with a very particular political agenda and rather effective on those that fall for it

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory.

That’s because it wasn’t really a grand conspiracy at all. It was a corporate organization doing what it always does when there’s a problem: It circles it’s wagons and tries to cover up the matter. Penn State and the Boy Scouts tried the same thing.

Unfortunately, covering the problem has a nasty habit of not dealing with the problem. Sending the cause of the problem somewhere else only ensures that it will continue somewhere else.

dansmith62 - 07 December 2012 06:01 AM

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

It was certainly a conspiracy of silence before the evidence came out.  There are actual conspiracies, which are different than conspiracy theories.  A conspiracy theory is usually a fairy tale, actual conspiracies are not.

Lois - 07 December 2012 09:12 AM

dansmith62 - 07 December 2012 06:01 AM

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

It was certainly a conspiracy of silence before the evidence came out.  There are actual conspiracies, which are different than conspiracy theories.  A conspiracy theory is usually a fairy tale, actual conspiracies are not.

That doesn’t quite make sense. Before the evidence came out it would definitely have been just a theory.  Once the evidence came in that by definition makes it “actual”.

As far as remembering how things were labeled, I was making up an example based in reality. I wasn’t quoting newspaper headlines are anything like that. 

As for 911, one of the things that makes me think it was an inside job was the lengths Bush and Cheney personally went to to prevent the 911 Commission from being created.  Then once created how they worked to stack the deck, avoid testifying themselves, etc.  Tell tale signs (though not proof) of guilt.

CuthbertJ - 07 December 2012 11:11 AM

Lois - 07 December 2012 09:12 AM

dansmith62 - 07 December 2012 06:01 AM

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

It was certainly a conspiracy of silence before the evidence came out.  There are actual conspiracies, which are different than conspiracy theories.  A conspiracy theory is usually a fairy tale, actual conspiracies are not.

That doesn’t quite make sense. Before the evidence came out it would definitely have been just a theory.  Once the evidence came in that by definition makes it “actual”.

LL.  That’s a good point, but how long do you think a conspiracy theory should be considered valid with no hard evidence being presented?  Is there a point at which it becomes an irrational idea thwt should be dropped by any rational person?

Cuthbert. As far as remembering how things were labeled, I was making up an example based in reality. I wasn’t quoting newspaper headlines are anything like that. 

As for 911, one of the things that makes me think it was an inside job was the lengths Bush and Cheney personally went to to prevent the 911 Commission from being created.  Then once created how they worked to stack the deck, avoid testifying themselves, etc.  Tell tale signs (though not proof) of guilt.

LL.  There is still no actual evidence of their involvement.  It may be time to end the speculation and move on.  If there were evidence to be had I think it would have been presented by now.  After 11years it stands to reason that SOMEONE would have talked.

It sure looks very odd but it could be
more like lack of good routines for
what to do.

Compare with Pearl Harbor
Japanese too USA by surprise and
managed to destroy very many ships.

Maybe the Hihackers managed to slip
under the RADAR of intelligence none
of those higher up trusting them to be
able to do it. They may have known about
their plans but they did not trust it was going
to happen.

Compare with Tsunami in Japan the big one.
They had planned for it to come and had build
the walls to stop it but it was way bigger than
what they had anticipated even their wildest
thinking on what to expect. Maybe cost set a limit too.

This is so typical Human is it not. One can not defend
the cost for having 100% protection so hundreds die
each year due to traffic and think of all the tragic
suicide. Thousands die out of depression and none
seems to be able to come up with 100% means to stop it.

The latest conspiracy theory has to do with the earthquake in Japan.  Some have said that we should be looking at HAARP as the cause.  Now HAARP is an electro-magnetic weapon that was developed as weather warfare and is disguised as an experimental piece of science research.  HAARP has been blamed before, as it was this year in Haiti on 1/11/11.  I will be writing more about this as the days go on.  Check back and keep under the radar.
* Weather manipulation thru the use of contrails.   
* The Culper Ring, who was 355?
* The China/Goldman Conspiracy seems likely.
* Robert Redford looks closer at the Lincoln Assassination.
* A pretty good 9/11 page.
* George W. Bush wins
* Secrets of our money

Now HAARP is an electro-magnetic weapon

No it’s not. See http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

There’s nothing there which can have any possible utility as a weapon. (And a single shot from my .357sig is a lot more likely to trigger an earthquake then even the most powerful radio transmitter ever will.)

CuthbertJ - 07 December 2012 11:11 AM

Lois - 07 December 2012 09:12 AM

dansmith62 - 07 December 2012 06:01 AM

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

It was certainly a conspiracy of silence before the evidence came out.  There are actual conspiracies, which are different than conspiracy theories.  A conspiracy theory is usually a fairy tale, actual conspiracies are not.

That doesn’t quite make sense. Before the evidence came out it would definitely have been just a theory.  Once the evidence came in that by definition makes it “actual”.

As far as remembering how things were labeled, I was making up an example based in reality. I wasn’t quoting newspaper headlines are anything like that. 

As for 911, one of the things that makes me think it was an inside job was the lengths Bush and Cheney personally went to to prevent the 911 Commission from being created.  Then once created how they worked to stack the deck, avoid testifying themselves, etc.  Tell tale signs (though not proof) of guilt.

I agree that there was a widespread conspiracy among high clergy to keep silent and not report the crimes to state authorities (which is a crime in itself). This was a real conspiracy and not just a conspiracy theory. If people outside the Church floated the idea that large-scale abuse was going on and the high clergy remained silent about it, this could indeed be seen as a conspiracy theory which later turned out to be true. So was this idea being floated in the late 20th century? The first time I heard about it was around 2002.

Learn about the granddaddy of all conspiracies at:  http://www.angeloftruth.com/christianity

dansmith62 - 07 December 2012 06:01 AM

I can’t remember that the Catholic Church’s sex abuse scandal was labeled as a conspiracy theory. And because of the thousands of witnesses i.e. the victims in dozens of countries it doesn’t make sense at all. So it’s not a good example.

The conspiracy was the cover-up and moving priests from parish to parish to escape detection and publicity. And we know now that it was a conspiracy of silence.

Lois

 

That’s different from the claims that the Bush administration orchestrated the 911 attacks.

Some people are interested in conspiracy theories, because they find a lot of aspects of their lives rather boring.

The Vatican and the catholic “church” is the product of mankind’s greatest and most elaborate and complex conspiracy.  Just the planning for it took fifty years.

Arthur King - 19 March 2013 06:17 AM

The Vatican and the catholic “church” is the product of mankind’s greatest and most elaborate and complex conspiracy.  Just the planning for it took fifty years.

I always thought of the catholic “church” as the first multi-national corporation, hostile take-overs and all.

Not sure where the conspiracies come in.  God appointed them, no secret was made of that.