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Why do people use so much bias when debating about religion?
Posted: 23 December 2012 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Some day the world will realize that religion is a choice.  There is no proof that any spiritual being allowed us to be born or when to die.  It stuns me how many politicians believe in God.  Or, if they don’t why make a law within the platform that God must be recognized. I have visions of Jefferson and Franklin are sitting around a pub chuckling “They didn’t believe us, did they Ben?”  Thus spake Jefferson.

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Posted: 23 December 2012 07:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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First, politicians are not chosen for intelligence (says a lot about us voters, doesn’t it?); second, politicians know they’ll lose many votes if they don’t make some statements that indicate they are church-goers so I’d guess a moderate number of them are agnostics or atheists but won’t publicize it.

Occam

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Posted: 24 December 2012 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Sad but true!  The truth about religion will be exposed but, I fear, not in our lifetime.  I have to admit that I enjoy the History 2 Channel and how they handle the holidays.  My grandfather was a Sunday school teacher and had some wonderful stories about the old testament.  His stories predated the Book of Mormon.  My kids landed in Tahiti and did their first shallow water snorkeling.  They even got her husband in the water.  He has a silly fear of water.  J.J. weill head for the deep water today.  She is a natural fish.

Enjoy your holiday.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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It’s very difficult because from the time we are born we are shaped by the conditions or our environment. Our preferences, beliefs, political views, actions, etc… our identity, all slow-cooked over time. Had we of been born in a different time, place, and culture, you can bet your identity would not be the same as it is now under the conditions in which you were raised. It takes more effort to use logic to think outside of ones own preferences, outside of all the conditions that determined ones being in each moment, than to just let those slow-cooked ingredients determine your flavor. You are fortunate if the conditions determined you to use logic to come to conclusions that exclude your preferences.  It seems that most people don’t want to take the effort, time, or the risk of going outside of their comfort zone to follow the evidence where ever it leads them despite their personal preferences. You see this in everyday interactions, not just religious debate.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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What a delightful way of putting our evolution.  I am indeed slow cooked and often deep fried.

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Posted: 02 January 2013 10:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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arielmessenger - 20 December 2012 07:55 PM

.....Like atheists writing about God and spiritual reality when none of them has ever experienced it. Only fools listen to “authority” claims of those without experience in what they claim to know all about…

Do you understand that about 99% of atheists were born into religious families, and grew up going to church/synagogue/temple/mosque?
We have all been there/ done that.

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 02 January 2013 11:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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WAIT. Did AM say that atheists do not know what religion is? One of my steps toward disbelief (based on evidence) was reading the entire Bible end to end. KJV and RSV both.

Talking to some Catholic friends, and finding out the differences in the “10 commandments” was also an eyeopener.

Words written by people to control other people, that’s what I have to conclude, based on the various obvious emotional blackmails and manipulations. It’s all to scare you into doing something NOW so you don’t burn after you cease to exist. Blackmail, plain and simple.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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jj.  I agree that some of us strive to be part of a controlled organization.  For years I hid under the label of “secular” figuring that most people did not knows what it meant.  People who read up on history knew what a horror vision came up /when the word “Atheist” was mentioned.  I read Darwin in high school back in the late 40’s.  It simply opened the door to Orwell as far as individual human labels. 

I did not believe that I would be alone in this world of non-believers and set off to locate others of the same mind set.  Only in the world of sci fi in my school library did I find what I wanted.  H.G. Wells and Jules Verne were right there for the taking.  We had no television at the time I was in school and the lack of it fed my desire for books.  I had no TV when my kids were small and they are all book lovers too.  My youngest also carries the name of “J.J.”  I named her Janet after my grandmother and we got them mixed up and ended up calling the baby “little what’s her name.”  She answered, so what the hell? 

I do not debate about religion because we either believe or we don’t.  It is not a moral judgment but one of choice.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Recent polls have indicated that atheists are more knowledgeable on the contents of the bible than theists. So it seems that if you read the bible thoroughly and understand it correctly, it is more likely to make you a non-believer than a believer. I suspect believers become so not from a solid understanding of the bible, but from being raised in a religious social environment among family and friends, conditioned by a charismatic pastor, a feeling a belonging to a group or club, etc… for reasons other than understanding the bible.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Could be.  I choose to believe the bible is pure fiction and fun reading.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 07:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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In fact, the point that atheism (at least weak atheism or scientific agnosticism) is not a belief system, it is ONLY the lack of belief in something is why atheists are not organized into something like churches.

Organizing atheists would be like organizing people who don’t think the moon is made of green cheese, in other words.

There is no commonality beyond a LACK of something. But many people LACK being a billionaire, or thinking the moon is green cheese, or that Hutzipochli liked heart met, or that the spirits of the air made the wind blow.  A lack of something is not a commonality.

What is common is how atheists are intentionally disparaged, and in a way both quite unChristian and unethical, by lots of ministers and the sheep they herd.
(edited for typokinesis)

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Posted: 03 January 2013 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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>>The truth about religion will be exposed but, I fear, not in our lifetime.<<

Regretably Sandy, the truth about religion has been exposed for almost three hundred years. The founding fathers of the USA were very much creatures of the Enlightenment age and most of them knew it for the scam that it was even when politics required that they at least put on a show of respect for it.

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Posted: 03 January 2013 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 03 January 2013 08:19 PM

>>The truth about religion will be exposed but, I fear, not in our lifetime.<<

Regretably Sandy, the truth about religion has been exposed for almost three hundred years. The founding fathers of the USA were very much creatures of the Enlightenment age and most of them knew it for the scam that it was even when politics required that they at least put on a show of respect for it.

Quite true. Unfortunately, now we have a whole cadre of historical revisionists screaming THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION and a great lot of other codswallop, and more people believe it than not.

I have had quite a few people tell me Jefferson was “ABSOLUTELY A CHRISTIAN YOU SATANISTIC IDIOT” (literally at least once, including the caps), and, well, I guess they never heard of the “Jefferson Bible”. I’ve been told that Tom Paine was a Christian because he said “By God”.

Yi yi yi…

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Posted: 04 January 2013 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Obviously, we have a job to do with the next generation of leaders in America and elsewhere.  Why are people in our generation so afraid to stand up and demand that leaders in our government and organizations so timid about the influence from the religious people? 

I managed a small chamber music group and it was my job to locate venues for our musicians to use.  The best locations were the churches in our area.  Our group was made up of the string sections of our symphony.  This included violins, violas, cellos and the bass (big boys of the group.  Many composers like Bach and Mozart would write music for strings with a piano, horn and often a group of singers as part of the group.  Chamber music was written to be played in the chambers of royalty throughout Europe.  It was also composed to accompany dancers.  Churches were a perfect place for our group to perform from trios all the Our Christmas productions were beautiful and the children were invited at no charge handing out flowers to the audience. 

I would visit the church pastors and talk about how our musicians needed nothing but chairs and good acoustics.  We had our own music stands and our own lighting, if necessary.  I would explain that chamber music was composed for just the size that most smaller churches could handle without electronic acoustics added.  We had access to a local radio station and my conductor and I would do the announcements.  The church must be open to all who paid the price of the ticket.  It was good for the church to bring people in and introduce them to the Pastor and the facility.  Basically none of the musicians brought any belief in any God with us and we preferred not to have anything mentioned as our audience might have a number of Jews, Muslim, or even Atheists who were there for the music.  We were denied the use of the church only once. 

I see no reason for the facilities within our cities to not open their buildings for other uses.  We have given these churches special tax deductions and it would seem a logical reason to allow the facilities to be used by the tax payers.  In this way, it would introduce Secular Humanism to the people who live around many of these church buildings.  Special children programs would be a great way to introduce the children into a new group usage.  It could even grow into a poetry reading for children to develop. 

I believe in action to introduce many things to our children.  The minute the word Atheist is used our purpose is defeated. 

Introduce with art and music will be the best way but only with careful use of our language.  We are not declaring a war, we are introducing freedom to the next generation.  Too many want to use their fists over reason and love to catch the attention of the children.  It is religion that is taught with the fear of hell and damnation.  We can stamp this out.

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Posted: 04 January 2013 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 03 January 2013 08:19 PM

>>The truth about religion will be exposed but, I fear, not in our lifetime.<<

Regretably Sandy, the truth about religion has been exposed for almost three hundred years. The founding fathers of the USA were very much creatures of the Enlightenment age and most of them knew it for the scam that it was even when politics required that they at least put on a show of respect for it.

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”  - Seneca

By the rulers as useful… It seems that religion serves as a nice tool for misdirection. While common people invest their time in religion it pulls them away from real world issues, political, environmental, educational, etc… Which allows those in power less resistance. They can get away with more, more things go unnoticed, unchallenged, while the common people have their heads buried in the bible and their hands cuffed together at the foot of their bed.

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