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US Social Welfare
Posted: 08 January 2013 05:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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StephenLawrence - 07 January 2013 09:43 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 09:47 PM

My gripe is the principle of the thing.

Can you say a little more about this? Why the gripe? What principle?

Stephen

The principle of saving or spending money as I see fit.

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Posted: 08 January 2013 05:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 04:57 AM

... talking about sports being brainless entertainment gets very close to elitism.

Well, the point is that public funding should be for things that are of real social benefit, that aren’t adequately funded by the private sector. Public education is of such benefit. Museums, PBS, libraries are educational. Sports isn’t educational; it’s mere entertainment. It’s like the circus. Nothing wrong with the circus but apart from it making people smile, there is no real social benefit from circuses. (“Panem et circenses” notwithstanding). Also, sports and circuses are self-funding.

That said, one huge source of revenue for sports is local governments who give money or large tax breaks for new stadiums.

One might argue that only a portion of PBS programming is really educational, or that some museum exhibits aren’t really educational, etc. I would agree with that contention, and think that the government should be giving these organs closer oversight regulation to be sure they are complying with their mission.

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Posted: 08 January 2013 07:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I see both, education and entertainment of the public, equally important. It may be difficult to recognize this in our complex society, but try to scale it down to an island of a few dozen people and where you are the chief. I would want to educate my tribe as much as I would try to keep them entertained. Boredom is probably as dangerous as ignorance.

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Posted: 08 January 2013 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 05:08 AM
jj - 07 January 2013 09:58 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 11:44 PM

Yes, galleries, museums, public broadcasting should exist - and it’s good they do; they add to many people’s lives.

I just hate the idea of paying any amount for them!

Seriously, why? Your part of the taxes that fund such things is so small you wouldn’t likely get a refund that would buy you bubblegum.

I’m a miser.

...who’ll pay for National Parks. You aren’t being consistent, at all.

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Posted: 08 January 2013 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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dougsmith - 08 January 2013 05:22 AM
mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 04:57 AM

... talking about sports being brainless entertainment gets very close to elitism.

Well, the point is that public funding should be for things that are of real social benefit, that aren’t adequately funded by the private sector. Public education is of such benefit. Museums, PBS, libraries are educational. Sports isn’t educational; it’s mere entertainment. It’s like the circus. Nothing wrong with the circus but apart from it making people smile, there is no real social benefit from circuses. (“Panem et circenses” notwithstanding). Also, sports and circuses are self-funding.

That said, one huge source of revenue for sports is local governments who give money or large tax breaks for new stadiums.

One might argue that only a portion of PBS programming is really educational, or that some museum exhibits aren’t really educational, etc. I would agree with that contention, and think that the government should be giving these organs closer oversight regulation to be sure they are complying with their mission.

Sadly I’d bet there are many more Americans who value sports over museums, national parks, and libraries.

As I frequently tell folks, I don’t have the ‘sports gene’. smile However, I do watch the Niners occasionally and I’ve been known to head out to a ball game as well. Regardless, I agree that sports should not be funded by taxpayers. The problem, to me is, that local politicians only think the sports team will draw revenue and rarely seem to think it through and see the down sides.

I believe Oakland residents are still smarting over the deal getting the Raiders to return. And we see how Santa Clara does with the 49ers….

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 08 January 2013 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Sadly I’d bet there are many more Americans who value sports over museums, national parks, and libraries.

As I frequently tell folks, I don’t have the ‘sports gene’.  However, I do watch the Niners occasionally and I’ve been known to head out to a ball game as well. Regardless, I agree that sports should not be funded by taxpayers. The problem, to me is, that local politicians only think the sports team will draw revenue and rarely seem to think it through and see the down sides.

Also sadly, sports can also be used to gererate not only tax issues but in the case of Pennsylvania Gov. Corbett used as a political boost to his career by siding with the Penn. State alumni on the NCAA sanctions. With popularity slipping he’s suing the association to have the sanctions reduced hoping that this stance will increase his chances of reelection. This despite the fact that he was the Attorney General when the incident was uncovered, dragging his feet on prosecuting Sandusky.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/03/sports/ncaafootball/governor-announces-lawsuit-against-ncaa-over-penn-state-penalties.html?_r=0

 

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Posted: 08 January 2013 07:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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asanta - 08 January 2013 01:35 PM
mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 05:08 AM
jj - 07 January 2013 09:58 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 11:44 PM

Yes, galleries, museums, public broadcasting should exist - and it’s good they do; they add to many people’s lives.

I just hate the idea of paying any amount for them!

Seriously, why? Your part of the taxes that fund such things is so small you wouldn’t likely get a refund that would buy you bubblegum.

I’m a miser.

...who’ll pay for National Parks. You aren’t being consistent, at all.

Everyone who pays taxes will pay for them. What I would like to do, and what I have to do are obviously different - most of the time.

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Posted: 09 January 2013 01:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 05:10 AM
StephenLawrence - 07 January 2013 09:43 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 09:47 PM

My gripe is the principle of the thing.

Can you say a little more about this? Why the gripe? What principle?

Stephen

The principle of saving or spending money as I see fit.

Well, I don’t really see why you should be able to spend all the money you receive (before tax) on what you see fit. That wouldn’t seem moral in principle, unless perhaps you argue that would serve society best as well as your self somehow.

And I can’t see that it would work, there is lots of stuff we need that individuals left completely to their own devises probably wouldn’t spend on.

Stephen

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Posted: 09 January 2013 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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dougsmith - 07 January 2013 06:07 AM

I think there’s a legitimate question about what counts as stuff “in the public interest”, and at what amounts those things should be funded. E.g., I don’t think pro sports should be funded by the government. Sports is basically brainless entertainment that is all too easily self-funding. (Material for fitness and exercise might be a different matter—another reason for public and national parks). OTOH history, science, nature, and arguably some “cultural” (arts) stuff is worth funding, because of their educational value. Same reason the government should help fund public libraries. Without these kinds of free or relatively inexpensive educational opportunities, motivated but underprivileged citizens will be unable to learn and better themselves. Even Andrew Carnegie realized that.

I don’t like professional sports, however your delineation here Doug is very subjective.
I think a panel of well reasoned individuals could handily argue that both Public Sporting events and Art Museums are equally valuable to a culturally balanced society.
Ergo…they both deserve public funds.

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Posted: 09 January 2013 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 05:10 AM
StephenLawrence - 07 January 2013 09:43 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 09:47 PM

My gripe is the principle of the thing.

Can you say a little more about this? Why the gripe? What principle?

Stephen

The principle of saving or spending money as I see fit.

Yes but one may never require the services of the police department/Fire Dept. directly but they nevertheless receive massive collateral benefits economically, socially, etc..
The same could be said for Art or Sports.

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Posted: 09 January 2013 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 January 2013 10:22 AM

I don’t like professional sports, however your delineation here Doug is very subjective.
I think a panel of well reasoned individuals could handily argue that both Public Sporting events and Art Museums are equally valuable to a culturally balanced society.
Ergo…they both deserve public funds.

Well, sure it’s subjective, but I think there’s some good reasoning behind it. Not to say it isn’t debatable, of course.

To be clear: I’m talking only about pro sports, not casual sports in the sense of having public parks for playing ball or even National Parks for personal recreation.

But the bigger point here is that professional sports is self-funding: it makes tons of money from advertising, ticket sales, etc. So in that sense it doesn’t need public funding. It’s like movies or most TV. It’s pure entertainment that people already pay for and that is in fact very highly lucrative to its owners. Putting public funding there just amounts to subsidizing some billionaire’s already-hefty paycheck.

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Posted: 09 January 2013 02:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Now this kind of social welfare bothers me.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/09/news/companies/aig-lawsuit/

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Posted: 09 January 2013 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Looks like the company is not going to be part of the lawsuit.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/a-i-g-says-it-will-not-join-lawsuit-against-government/?hp

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 09 January 2013 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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harry canyon - 09 January 2013 02:54 PM

Looks like the company is not going to be part of the lawsuit.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/a-i-g-says-it-will-not-join-lawsuit-against-government/?hp

Take care,

Derek

Discretion is the better part of valor….....

meatballs.gif........shame.gif

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
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Posted: 10 January 2013 04:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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StephenLawrence - 09 January 2013 01:39 AM
mid atlantic - 08 January 2013 05:10 AM
StephenLawrence - 07 January 2013 09:43 AM
mid atlantic - 06 January 2013 09:47 PM

My gripe is the principle of the thing.

Can you say a little more about this? Why the gripe? What principle?

Stephen

The principle of saving or spending money as I see fit.

Well, I don’t really see why you should be able to spend all the money you receive (before tax) on what you see fit. That wouldn’t seem moral in principle, unless perhaps you argue that would serve society best as well as your self somehow.

And I can’t see that it would work, there is lots of stuff we need that individuals left completely to their own devises probably wouldn’t spend on.

Stephen

  grrr  We don’t get to spend before taxes, so that’s out of the question; like I said, the way I want to do (some) things is different from the way they are done.

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