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Is God Pro Choice?
Posted: 30 January 2013 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Actually, from what little I remember from studying theology back in college, Predistination is just as debated among Christians as is the proper way to baptise and the timing of the Rapture.

For some it is, for some it isn’t, but I’ve encountered a lot of them who try to have it both ways, and ignore the inhearant contradictions in such a position.

For me, it’s all a waste of time in any event. There’s no evidence for the existance of any]/i] god or gods so as far as I’m concerned, all the speculation about what gods want is a discussion of nothing.

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Posted: 31 January 2013 03:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 30 January 2013 07:32 PM

For some it is, for some it isn’t, but I’ve encountered a lot of them who try to have it both ways, and ignore the inhearant contradictions in such a position.

Well, who are the “them” to which you refer?  Theologians who have studied the religion, or ignorant people ranting about ideas they don’t fully understand?

I mean, if you are pissed off about the inherent ignorance of the world, I am right there with you, buddy.  There are a lot of stupid people, repeating the same shit that’s been told to them like parrots in a cage.

And going with that theme, what is your purpose in attacking birds who have been bred in captivity?  Wouldn’t your energy be better spent in figuring out how to let them out of the cage, and teaching them how to live without it?

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 30 January 2013 07:32 PM

For me, it’s all a waste of time in any event. There’s no evidence for the existance of any]/i] god or gods so as far as I’m concerned, all the speculation about what gods want is a discussion of nothing.

Then why did you click on a topic titled, “Is God Pro Choice?”  I didn’t force you to read my response and respond.

[ Edited: 31 January 2013 03:43 AM by TheHatredOfRainbows ]
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Posted: 31 January 2013 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Well, who are the “them” to which you refer?  Theologians who have studied the religion, or ignorant people ranting about ideas they don’t fully understand?

Both.

And going with that theme, what is your purpose in attacking birds who have been bred in captivity?  Wouldn’t your energy be better spent in figuring out how to let them out of the cage, and teaching them how to live without it?

I was niether attacking any of these birds in a cage or even addressing the issue.

Then why did you click on a topic titled, “Is God Pro Choice?”  I didn’t force you to read my response and respond.

For the same reasons that anybody else did: Because I have something to offer on the subject and it’s my right to do so.

Take it or leave it as it suits you. (That’s your right)

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Posted: 31 January 2013 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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TheHatredOfRainbows - 30 January 2013 11:06 AM

Having foresight has nothing to do with Free Will.  If a person were to see the future and allow it to happen, would they be infringing on free will?  The logic isn’t there.  Foresight is different from personal involvement and forcing a person to do something.

If god knows what you are going to do before you do it, it means a path is already set and you couldn’t do otherwise. There are no choices or options. If god has the forsight that you are going to eat tacos for lunch, then you are going to eat tacos for lunch. Burgers, chili, salad, etc… items you thought were options, weren’t really options at all, only conditions that further contributed to determining you to the set path, the path that an all knowing god would be aware of.

Whether he determined you to this path or not, the fact that he knows your path already, and knows every step you will take already, means you couldn’t do otherwise. I am not saying his foresight CAUSES these things to happen, I am saying his knowing what will happen already means there is already a set path. And if there is already a set path, you cannot do otherwise. You do not have free-will.

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Posted: 31 January 2013 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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morgantj - 31 January 2013 07:19 AM
TheHatredOfRainbows - 30 January 2013 11:06 AM

Having foresight has nothing to do with Free Will.  If a person were to see the future and allow it to happen, would they be infringing on free will?  The logic isn’t there.  Foresight is different from personal involvement and forcing a person to do something.

If god knows what you are going to do before you do it, it means a path is already set and you couldn’t do otherwise. There are no choices or options. If god has the forsight that you are going to eat tacos for lunch, then you are going to eat tacos for lunch. Burgers, chili, salad, etc… items you thought were options, weren’t really options at all, only conditions that further contributed to determining you to the set path, the path that an all knowing god would be aware of.

Whether he determined you to this path or not, the fact that he knows your path already, and knows every step you will take already, means you couldn’t do otherwise. I am not saying his foresight CAUSES these things to happen, I am saying his knowing what will happen already means there is already a set path. And if there is already a set path, you cannot do otherwise. You do not have free-will.

A normal person having foresight of future events doesn’t have anything to do with Free Will.  But God having foresight does because he’s supposed to be all knowing.  All knowing means he knows which path you’ll choose, which to me means you only have one choice, the one that makes God right, and that’s the same as not having a choice.

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Posted: 31 January 2013 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 30 January 2013 07:32 PM

Actually, from what little I remember from studying theology back in college, Predistination is just as debated among Christians as is the proper way to baptise and the timing of the Rapture.

For some it is, for some it isn’t, but I’ve encountered a lot of them who try to have it both ways, and ignore the inhearant contradictions in such a position.

For me, it’s all a waste of time in any event. There’s no evidence for the existance of any]/i] god or gods so as far as I’m concerned, all the speculation about what gods want is a discussion of nothing.

Well if you mean just between the folks here, ya it’s just harmless fake theology about a fake “god”. Problem is, there are millions out there for whom this is a real important topic AND they do things like vote, blow up clinics, and various other sins. I.e. it ain’t astrology, which is just as fake.  What I DO find valuable though is to try to argue to a certain conclusion WITHIN the perspective of the offender.  It’s sort of like, “Ok, I’ll grant you there’s a god, she’s a christian god, and the bible is true”. EVEN SO… 

That seems to be an effective tact to take.

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Posted: 31 January 2013 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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CuthbertJ - 31 January 2013 10:49 AM
morgantj - 31 January 2013 07:19 AM
TheHatredOfRainbows - 30 January 2013 11:06 AM

Having foresight has nothing to do with Free Will.  If a person were to see the future and allow it to happen, would they be infringing on free will?  The logic isn’t there.  Foresight is different from personal involvement and forcing a person to do something.

If god knows what you are going to do before you do it, it means a path is already set and you couldn’t do otherwise. There are no choices or options. If god has the forsight that you are going to eat tacos for lunch, then you are going to eat tacos for lunch. Burgers, chili, salad, etc… items you thought were options, weren’t really options at all, only conditions that further contributed to determining you to the set path, the path that an all knowing god would be aware of.

Whether he determined you to this path or not, the fact that he knows your path already, and knows every step you will take already, means you couldn’t do otherwise. I am not saying his foresight CAUSES these things to happen, I am saying his knowing what will happen already means there is already a set path. And if there is already a set path, you cannot do otherwise. You do not have free-will.

A normal person having foresight of future events doesn’t have anything to do with Free Will.  But God having foresight does because he’s supposed to be all knowing.  All knowing means he knows which path you’ll choose, which to me means you only have one choice, the one that makes God right, and that’s the same as not having a choice.

Exactly. I have been speaking for God’s all-knowing foresight.

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Posted: 31 January 2013 08:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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A lot of the responses I am reading don’t sound very logical.  It sounds more like angry people with an axe to grind, looking for a way to vent.  Which is no different from some of the religious people I knew when I was one.  One does not need to be religious in order to be a fanatic.  You just have to cover your ears, close your eyes, and scream, “LALALALALALALA!”

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Posted: 31 January 2013 09:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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A lot of the responses I am reading don’t sound very logical.

Well, maybe not to you. The rest of us obviously differ. If you think any of us are wrong, you’ll have to be specific and explain why.

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Posted: 01 February 2013 12:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 25 January 2013 03:34 PM

<snip>
God (Morgan Freeman) is an atheist.
<snip>

Nope. Sorry. God is George Burns. LOL

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 01 February 2013 06:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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TheHatredOfRainbows - 31 January 2013 08:55 PM

A lot of the responses I am reading don’t sound very logical.  It sounds more like angry people with an axe to grind, looking for a way to vent.  Which is no different from some of the religious people I knew when I was one.  One does not need to be religious in order to be a fanatic.  You just have to cover your ears, close your eyes, and scream, “LALALALALALALA!”

I didn’t notice any signs of anger or name calling till this post. I thought your previous responses were very articulate expressions of your opinion. Disagreement does not necessitate anger.

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Posted: 04 February 2013 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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CuthbertJ - 24 January 2013 01:25 PM

Was just watching Bruce Almighty. Nice scene in the beginning where he tells Bruce you can do anything you want but you can’t mess with Free Will.  I know about Free Will and the Problem of Evil.  But, pretending to be a Christian now, God did in fact give us free will. Doesn’t that mean He’s Pro-Choice?  I mean if Free Will doesn’t mean having the complete freedom to choose, come what may, then it isn’t exactly free will is it?

Imaginary beings can’t take philosophical stances.

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Posted: 05 February 2013 05:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Nope. Sorry. God is George Burns.

C’mon Derek. That was the old god, shuffling, cigar smoking smart aleck vaudevillian. Freeman represents the NOW god, sharp dressed, erudite, wise with wry humor at man’s plight. Of course he will be replaced one day by yet another god, more modern than Freeman, maybe and Asian god kind like Daniel Inouye. Anyway,stay tuned for the “this is what we think god looks and acts like for our time” show.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 05 February 2013 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 05 February 2013 05:25 AM

Nope. Sorry. God is George Burns.

C’mon Derek. That was the old god, shuffling, cigar smoking smart aleck vaudevillian. Freeman represents the NOW god, sharp dressed, erudite, wise with wry humor at man’s plight. Of course he will be replaced one day by yet another god, more modern than Freeman, maybe and Asian god kind like Daniel Inouye. Anyway,stay tuned for the “this is what we think god looks and acts like for our time” show.
Cap’t Jack

<sticks fingers in ears>

LA! LA! LA! LA! LA! LA!

grin

I think Bruce Campbell should portray god in a movie. LOL (Or a Flying Spaghetti Monster!)

Take care,

Derek

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