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The less you know, probably the better.
Posted: 22 May 2013 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Occam. - 22 May 2013 06:29 PM

One of the problems with responding to threads that have been inactive for a while is that the starter may no longer be around.  For example, if you check TheAudience’s profile you’ll see he joined on Jan 30 and was last here on Feb 2. 

Occam

Thanks.  I didn’t catch that. 

You know, the dearth of any new intros lately seems odd to me.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 22 May 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Lois - 22 May 2013 05:30 PM
TimB - 22 May 2013 12:30 PM

Am I an agnostic omnivore, since I doubt that eating everything that I want is good for me?

Ha, I like it! Is that something like an omnivorous agnostic (someone who eats everything but doesn’t want to know what it is.)
.

Now, You’re being silly.  Very good!

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Boy, Tim B & TheAudience, as a new member I am very impressed by your level of thought and how you communicate your thoughts into words. You guys are wordsmith artists.

My 2 cents,
First it has been proven that man has needed gods before pottery. So, let’s assume that all men need gods, and that can be backed up by history. So today’s terms of atheist are incorrect.

Second, if man did not need god. Why did he create all these gods?

Third, if you study the Gnostics teachings of Jesus, you get that god is inside of you. So man is god.

Point being, that before you put yourself into a slot, make sure you understand the subject.

The meaning of some words and labels seem to change over time.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Mike Yohe - 01 June 2013 03:18 PM

Boy, Tim B & TheAudience, as a new member I am very impressed by your level of thought and how you communicate your thoughts into words. You guys are wordsmith artists.

My 2 cents,
First it has been proven that man has needed gods before pottery. So, let’s assume that all men need gods, and that can be backed up by history. So today’s terms of atheist are incorrect.

Second, if man did not need god. Why did he create all these gods?

Third, if you study the Gnostics teachings of Jesus, you get that god is inside of you. So man is god.

Point being, that before you put yourself into a slot, make sure you understand the subject.

The meaning of some words and labels seem to change over time.

Thanks, Mike, TheAudience appears to be no longer with us, but I am still here.

Re: Your 1st and 2nd points, I think that we humans evolved in such a way that superstitious thinking comes very easily to us. (IOW, I think that striving to come to an understanding of what is going on in our world has had survival value.)  When our predecessors have not had enough information and knowledge about our natural world, religious explanations have filled in the gaps.  So I think that the assumption that “all men need gods” is incorrect, except for those men, who are compelled to fill in the gaps of knowledge and information with the conception of gods, or, who need the comfort of such a belief system.

Re: Your point that god is inside you, I think is just a relatively sophisticated interpretation of a superstitious belief system that, is based on, and buys into the conception and belief that there is a God or gods. 

Re: Your point, that the meaning of words and labels change over time, this is undoubtably true.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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TimB
Thank you, thank you and thank you.

I like the way you think.

Let me clarify my third point with more data.
a.  Jesus, born into the Religion of Abraham.
b.  Goes down to Egypt to hide out with the migrant labor from his area.
c.  Picks up religious ideas based upon Egyptian and Veda ideas. 
d.  The Samaritan form of his Religion of Abraham in Israel has is being replaced by Greek influence.
e.  Jesus in Egypt is taught in the Gnostic form of the ideas of the Veda.

Reading many quotes of Jesus in the bible in Gnostic and other data available to us today.
Jesus said “You are the Light of the World”. Light meaning knowledge. “While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.”
Just some quick Gnostic saying.

If god is the light and you become the son of light then you to are the son of god, just as Jesus was.

Now that in itself is questionable.

But understanding the Veda, it becomes quite clear.

Now that’s good but are you willing to step out on the plank with just this data?
Not really.
Are you going to spend years getting all the details and subject matter before choosing to make a stand?
Not really.
Are you willing to read what the scholars who have made a lifetime studying these subjects have to say?
Yes.
If they are leaning in this direction are you willing to back them?

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Posted: 01 June 2013 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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TimB
Part two,
Now Jesus is teaching Paul and them about the Veda ideas.
Tries to explain how he is the son of god.
In Israel they have not grasped the ideas of the Veda.
Now Jesus is defending himself with the priests of the Religion of Abraham.

My guess is that Jesus got frustrated with the hassle of dealing with the priests and that is why Paul and them never fully understood the teachings of Jesus.
But James and Mary understood.

And the people liked what Jesus was saying.

Now look at the burials changed at the time of Jesus. Bone boxes. After Jesus was gone and John and Paul preached their own ideas, no more bone boxes.

Recap.
a.  Man created god.
b.  How good man behaved in life controlled what level in life he returned. So man was part of the system of god.
c.  Old Egypt changed that to have man judged good or bad by a god.
d.  Egypt is taken over by different rulers and religion ideas varies greatly.
e.  Children of Abraham are in large number in Egypt.
f.  Religion in the area changes.

Now back to the subject of matter.
Today we are also in a change of religious thought.
Never in the last thousand years have we understood religion history as we can today.
So will we change our views on the teachings of Jesus?
Will man once again feel that he is part of god?
Was that the real goal of Jesus’ teachings?
Put another way – maybe for many thousands years man felt he was part of God.

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Posted: 02 June 2013 01:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Well, if you enjoy believing that you are part of god, it’s your life.  Personally, it seems intellectually dishonest, and is not my cup of tea (or koolaid), so to speak.
I can’t say that I know anything much about Hindusm or the Veda, but it seems to me to be more religious dogma dressed up with your (or the Veda’s?) interpretation that man is a part of god.

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Posted: 02 June 2013 04:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Well, if you enjoy believing that you are part of god, it’s your life.  Personally, it seems intellectually dishonest, and is not my cup of tea (or koolaid), so to speak.
I can’t say that I know anything much about Hindusm or the Veda, but it seems to me to be more religious dogma dressed up with your (or the Veda’s?) interpretation that man is a part of god.

Reply,

I understand.

And for you to even begin to think differently you have to change you thoughts and understanding on what god is. And very few people are going to be able to do this.

Jesus did, he changed his whole thinking about the meaning of god.
There were two lines of thought in Egypt.
The Roman thinking of God and the Gnostic thinking of god.
Rome ruled, so guess what.

As far as the Vedic and Hinduism teachings.  I will put it like this, with the Middle East religions; I like to draw a tree with the different branches of religion as they evolve. If you don’t include the vedic then you have no trunk on the diagram.

That would be impossible to do with the religions that evolved and stayed in India. Way to many branches.

So you have to stick with concepts and ideas.

Do you feel that you have a knowledge and understanding of right, wrong, life, death? If so you are already there in many ways.

If you agree that man created god, then you should not have any trouble with Gnostic thinking.

If you think that woman are equal to men, in the world of gods, that’s Gnostic.

Last, what are your thoughts about death? Older religions were mostly Sky Burials. That is you returned to spirits and back to earth. The last thing they would want would be put into the earth. Jesus was in the middle, using bone boxes. And of course bones held the spirit or the Holy Ghost.

Me, I don’t care, when you are dead, your dead. And the most godly thing you can do is to pass on your knowledge.

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